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  • #16
    Re: liability

    Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
    Can't you just take teh plug out and put a t&P in and bring it up to code? It would have taken me the same or less time to do that than to mess around disconnecting the electric and all.
    Gotta' go with this. Get a T&P and install it. Got to get things done and noting it, saving it, going through the chain of command etc. just gets nothing done alot of times.

    J.C.

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    • #17
      Re: liability

      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
      Gotta' go with this. Get a T&P and install it. Got to get things done and noting it, saving it, going through the chain of command etc. just gets nothing done alot of times.

      J.C.
      Maybe, until he puts that t&p in without permission and the water heater just happens to burst the next day. I bet it's Vince's fault then.
      "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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      • #18
        Re: liability

        Originally posted by NorthernIllinoisPlumber View Post
        If something happened, then the lawyers would go right on down the line, naming everyone in the lawsuit. You are never immune.
        thankfully my boss is on my side and he backs me up.

        we've decided that as long as we've got our a$$e$ covered with documentation, we'll be in the clear.

        but to be honest with you, if i came across the samething again, i would shut it down and deal with the screaming later. at least i can go to bed with a clear conscience.

        i wouldn't be able to forgive myself if i walked away and somebody got hurt or killed because of the fargen icehole's power trip. he just recently got promoted. there's a saying, $hit floats to the top. in this case it does.

        he's a legend in his own mind and i'm beginning to wonder if he's got syphilis that hasn't been diagnosed yet and i so hope he's reading this.

        Vince

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        • #19
          Re: liability

          Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
          Maybe, until he puts that t&p in without permission and the water heater just happens to burst the next day. I bet it's Vince's fault then.
          I know. But I see this happening to often and it's almost a plague in America. Don't get involved, speak up or take responsibility for things. (Not saying this is the case here). I'd replace it and just get ready for any arguments.

          J.C.

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          • #20
            Re: liability

            Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
            does OSHA get up there

            do you even have an OSHA
            No, they don't have OSHA, that is a US Gov Agency and part of the Dept of Labor. There is the Canadian equivalent of OSHA, but like ours their concern is workplace and jobsite safety, not code violations unless the happen to also be safety violations which I guess you could make a case under the General Duty Clause that this creates an unsafe work environment for anyone in the vicinity of the WH.

            Vince, I agree that the WH needs to be taken off line until properly protected. But it is also important to notify your supervisor of the situation and to document with photos and written reports as has been already said what you found and what was done to remedy the situation in the near term, and then to suggest the proper fix and cite the statute or code section which is being violated.
            "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
            John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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            • #21
              Re: liability

              What a bunch of morons. Obviously someone higher up who realizes the safety issue at hand should be mysteriously made aware. I bet if you brought it up at a parent/teacher meeting or school board meeting it would be taken care of :-)

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              • #22
                Re: liability

                Originally posted by Service Guy View Post
                Can't you just take teh plug out and put a t&P in and bring it up to code? It would have taken me the same or less time to do that than to mess around disconnecting the electric and all.
                I think he said he was doing it on a Sunday. If the water heater is like most I've seen at schools it's not a simple 125,000 BTU 3/4 relief valve. (depending on the size of the school I guess) So he may well not have had one on the truck regardless.

                Also, he seems to be from Canada. I doubt too many U.S. plumbers are familiar with Canadian liability laws. I know I'm not.

                All that said, if the T&P relief valve is six inches above the heater, the heater IS being protected. I'll agree that the temperature portion of the valve won't actuate at its design 210 F. temperature, it will be a higher number, maybe even above 212 F. Who can say? However, when water flashes to steam it increases its volume by 1258 times. Thus when water flashes to steam the pressure will start rising rapidly regardless of where the relief valve is located. So if the water heater thermostat did happen to fail as soon as the water starts flashing to steam the relief valve should lift.

                It's clear the T&P relief valve should be properly located, but the heater does have design protection. I don't think I would have shut if off personally, but shutting it off doesn't sound unreasonable either. Shutting the heater off has the added benefit of highlighting the issue to a greater degree than a letter to the maintenance manager. Or at least it should.

                Keep up the good work!!
                Time flies like an arrow.

                Fruit flies like a banana.

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                • #23
                  Re: liability

                  Down here we have what is known as the Public Servant. He( sometmes she) start out as a slug on the pavement, get some irt on someone else and then get promoted. They work their way up to the position of power with little or no appreciation for qualified Plumber GAsfitters. They compare us to the woodduck weekend warriors who charge bugger all and do the job several times over, never solviong the simple problem but rather creating more. Years ago I was working on a Police Station and I came across some raw ASBESTOS. Shame on me. I was threatened with life if I opened my mouth in front of the Coppers. Now adays I tell the person incharge, tell them what I think and then ask them for instructions. Cant wait for the day when I go to the Coroners Court and bring out the years of examples that we have on incompetent Public Servants. However, as a chart topper, the Governement legislated years ago that they cant be sued, tried or other. If youever feel threatened document and let it get out to the media. Wont fix it but it will give you some sort of protection

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                  • #24
                    Re: liability

                    I just saw this post and thought I would comment on it from personal experience.

                    About 25 years ago I handled soft water service to a Holiday Inn. Holiday Inn Corporate makes it a policy that when a property gets to be between 7 and 11 years old they sell them. This particular property was sold to a group of Asians. This was an old school holiday inn. You should all be familiar with the design. A large tower with a single story building attached to either side. The single story building has the Lobby, restaurant and in the back area, mechanical, laundry and offices.

                    After a couple of years of ownership, issues with the boiler started creeping up. T&P dripping and blowing off, thermostat not registering water temperature properly.

                    The fix by the Asian engineering staff.
                    1. T&P valve - Wire the blow off lever so it no longer drips causing steam in the mechanical room.
                    2. Thermostat not registering properly. No problem, pull it out of the outlet pipe sleeve it was mounted into and duct tape it to the side of the outlet pipe.

                    Anyways I don’t have the pictures anymore but the water softener, (fiberglass) which was on the inlet side of the boiler ruptured at the bottom. The explosion caused a forty foot wall between the mechanical room and the employee break room to break. Every 2x4 stud snapped at the base and at the upper frame and pushed in around three to four feet into the break room. Luckily the employee breaks ended about ten minutes before the explosion. The file cabinets in the office that got destroyed looked like crumbled up tin foil.

                    The best part was when the base of the softener blew off, it shot the softener through the roof, (breaking 2" copper fittings like they were toothpicks) of the mechanical room and over the top of the 23 story tower. The tank landed approximately half a mile away in a field.

                    The fire departement had a chart that they used to measure PSI explosions equated to Dynamite. (wish I had a copy of that chart) They estimated the pressure build up/explosion ratio to around 5-7 sticks of dynamite.
                    Last edited by Watersurgeon; 02-09-2010, 08:12 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: liability

                      I THINK THIS SAYS IT ALL VINCE ! !

                      AS A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL I PERSONAL WOULD NOT DEPEND ON A

                      UNSAFE CONDITION BEING PASSED UP THE CHAIN IT VERY WELL COULD

                      BE TWO LATE FOR SOMEONE I WOULD TAKE THE EXACT SAME STEPS

                      THAT YOU DID AND I WOULD EXPECT ANYONE WORKING FOR ME TO

                      DO THE SAME THING,

                      I HAD A SIMPLER THING HAPPENED IN MY SHOP IN L.A. I HAD A PRESSURE

                      BULGED TANK WHERE THE TANK HEAD SET ON TOP OF THE BURNER

                      I HAD MY PLUMBER PULL THE WHOLE BURNER ASSP. AND RETURN IT TO THE

                      SHOP, YOU CAN ALWAYS SORT OUT THE CORRECT WAY TO DO SOMETHING

                      BUT SAFETY AND PROTECTION SHOULD ALWAYS BE A PLUMBERS FIRST

                      THOUGHT ! !

                      IN THIS ARTICLE DO YOU THINK THE DEAD CHILDREN AND SCHOOL TEACHER

                      CARED WHO OR WHY SOMETHING WAS DONE WRONG ! ! !




                      http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5034,4367077
                      JERRYMAC
                      E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                      CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                      FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                      SINCE JAN. 1989

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                      • #26
                        Re: liability

                        JUST GOOGLE WATER HEATER EXPLOSIONS, BOILER EXPLOSIONS,

                        NAT GAS EXPLOSIONS, PROPANE GAS EXPLOSIONS

                        ON THE INTERNET ANY DAY AND ANY TIME YOU WILL SEE COUNTLESS

                        EXAMPLES I HAVE GOOGLE ALERTS E MAILED TO ME EVERYDAY !
                        JERRYMAC
                        E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
                        CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
                        FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
                        SINCE JAN. 1989

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: liability

                          The truth is that your liability always depends on how good a lawyer you can afford. When the poo hits the fan, the lawyers all line up and pretty much name anyone and everyone that had anything at all to do with it along with all the manufacturers and their close relatives. From that point on, it again, depends on your lawyer. documenting is a very good idea because it gives you lawyer some leverage when the time comes.
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