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  • #31
    Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

    Originally posted by cpw View Post
    I'm not saying that you are obligated to change your price, you can just say the price is take it or leave it. I am objecting to the attitude that the customer doesn't have the right to try; which is what Andy is saying.
    I agree with Andy and take it as a light insult *Shrug*

    When I was bidding jobs to clients either working for the company or when I was self-employed, I would negotiate the cost and scope of work. Edit: BTW, I will say that I object to the notion that I have my hand out to a company for a job (not taking it personally); I'm good at what I do, so there is another company to work for. Just like for you there is another customer if you can't come to terms.

    My point was if you are asking another corporate entity you are playing by their rules... The difference is you working for other companies is still you working for someone other corporation not yourself... IMO a big difference


    I don't think there is much of a distinction. Your position is that "this is my rate" and take it or leave it. That is perfectly valid. I personally have generally moved a little, but there is a minimum that I would be willing to work for. But just because you have a particular job or a company doesn't make your initial offer of cost of the services you provide sacrosanct, and something that it is an insult to discuss.
    Yes it does because I make the rules You negotiate because you choose to or have to....
    I do not make that choice nor will I be forced to because I have worked for that freedom...

    If you choose to negotiate remember that it can and has worked both ways... I will start raising my price as you are trying to get me to lower it... If you use the term negotiate that is how it should and does work for me....

    If you are talking about whinning about my prices being to high so I should lower them that is not "negotiation" and is considered an insult



    Speaking rhetorically of course

    Just some food for thought...

    Okie
    Last edited by OkieBill; 01-20-2009, 07:56 PM.

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    • #32
      Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
      I think I understand Charles.
      I think you summed it up pretty darn well!

      If you faced that 3 times a week over your paycheck with your company I think you would be less inclined toward the negotiation process.
      I sure I would, as it is I'm not particularly good at it. It's never nice to hear that you aren't as valuable as you think you are. I'm lucky in that all my job interviews have been successful the only sticking point has ever been $$$.

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      • #33
        Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

        Originally posted by cpw View Post
        . It's never nice to hear that you aren't as valuable as you think you are.
        Wow! You get it, I think. The fact is, I am worth what we get. If someone doesn't agree with me, too bad, find another plumber.

        Next time I need some work done, I'll have you drive to my house in your fully equipped van at 7:30 on a Saturday night to fix my computer. When you fully diagnose it and tell me what needs done and give me a price i'll balk at your price and negotiate what your really worth. After all, any money I give you is money you didn't have. You should just be happy I called you.
        Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

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        • #34
          Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

          Originally posted by HighlandS&D View Post
          Its funny no one walks into the supermarket and asks them to lower their price when they get to the register. Why must they always haggle with a service trade.

          I don't know about that man

          I went to sears and bought a $799 6 tool combo for $480 by "haggling". It was a clearance item and it's been there for 6 months. I called a manager and explained that local retail had this item for $699 and it's been sitting there for a long time, I can help them "move it".

          Other time I was a local tool supplier and talked them into selling me a $250 porter-cable framing nailer for $150, taxes in [case had minor dents on it].

          Got a $799 Sony TV from BestBuy for $450. Sale was over but talked them into it anyway.

          So it is possible Probably wouldn't work in Wal-Mart, but I haven't tried.

          As for service trade, I had a pluber come in for around 40 minutes (i live in a big city) and charge me 2 hours labour at $67/hour and $12 for latex gloves + taxes. I think this is a rip-off, so I refused to pay more than $100, basically 1 hour and 1/2 hour travel.

          Most people haggle services not because they are cheap bastards, but because there are dishonest tradesmen and people think they are being had. Of course there are borderline cases where you are expected to swim in sewage for $12 an hour, but that's rare, just walk away from such customers.

          I personally don't trust most car mechanics for a simple reason that rates compared to wages are way overblown. I replaced many things in my car myself and when I get quotes like 1.5 hours to replace an alternator or a suspension assembly at $65-$79 an hour, that's ridiculous.

          I just had my car fixed - welded in new flex pipe, replace front link assemblies and change break pads - $950 [labour only]. Car was in the shop for 3 hours, tops. That's how much I make in 2 weeks (after deductions). Is that fair?

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          • #35
            Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

            Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post
            I personally don't trust most car mechanics for a simple reason that rates compared to wages are way overblown.
            I guess you never heard of business overhead? Small business 101. A company has to charge rates that allow the company to pay the employee wages, plus business overhead, and still make a profit.
            Most plumbing service shops have a wage to rate ratio of 20-30%. Meaning that for every $100 they bill out, they can only afford to pay $20-$30 in wages to the technician. The rest covers normal operating business expenses.
            Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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            • #36
              Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

              Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post
              As for service trade, I had a pluber come in for around 40 minutes (i live in a big city) and charge me 2 hours labour at $67/hour and $12 for latex gloves + taxes. I think this is a rip-off, so I refused to pay more than $100, basically 1 hour and 1/2 hour travel.



              I just had my car fixed - welded in new flex pipe, replace front link assemblies and change break pads - $950 [labour only]. Car was in the shop for 3 hours, tops. That's how much I make in 2 weeks (after deductions). Is that fair?
              I would have given you a price up front, and then told you good-bye when you complained.

              With all of your experience running a car mechanics shop, how much do you think he should have charged for the mechanic work? This guy has to pay employee salaries, insurance, advertising, and on, and on, and on.

              The business owner does not get to pocket the $950.
              Last edited by HebertDrainCare; 01-23-2009, 02:12 AM. Reason: mangled the message, correction

              Lenny

              Pronounced A-Bear Drain Care

              I know, it doesn't make sense.


              http://www.hebertdraincare.com

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              • #37
                Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

                Fair? I don't know.

                How much did the guy that did the work actually get to keep?

                I have replaced things on my vehicles as well. I personally think a good mechanic is worth it. They have years of training and sometimes $10,000-$20,000 worth of tools. Ever checked the prices from Snap-On or for their proprietary computer diagnostic equipment? Bent over a fender with your arm jammed against some hot greasy metal. People lose respect for them when they do the easy maintenance tasks like changing oil, brakepads, alternators etc. but forget about the super difficult things they run into all the time.

                Like plumbers, electricians, hvac, carpenters etc.

                I can only speak from an owners perspective that used to be an employee.

                Owners do not keep as much of that $75.00-$150.00/hr. that employees think. I used to think so too. Here's something that alot of people that start businesses or people that are employed find it hard to accept:

                An owner of a business deserves to make more than the average wage.
                If not then let's all just go get a job. I know I can.

                Owners have the intestinal fortitude to take risks and their survival completely upon themselves. For ANYONE employed that disagrees with this I firmly suggest you go start your own business and only charge $45.00/hr.(plumbing) for a couple of years. Then see how you feel about things.

                Prices for all services are what the market will bear. If the market will allow a business to charge $300.00/hr. then that's what they will charge.

                Me....I'm going up on rates.

                J.C.

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                • #38
                  Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

                  Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post

                  Owners do not keep as much of that $75.00-$150.00/hr. that employees think. I used to think so too. Here's something that alot of people that start businesses or people that are employed find it hard to accept:

                  An owner of a business deserves to make more than the average wage.
                  If not then let's all just go get a job. I know I can.

                  Owners have the intestinal fortitude to take risks and their survival completely upon themselves. For ANYONE employed that disagrees with this I firmly suggest you go start your own business and only charge $45.00/hr.(plumbing) for a couple of years. Then see how you feel about things.

                  Prices for all services are what the market will bear. If the market will allow a business to charge $300.00/hr. then that's what they will charge.
                  BINGO!!!!!! Thank You!

                  Lenny

                  Pronounced A-Bear Drain Care

                  I know, it doesn't make sense.


                  http://www.hebertdraincare.com

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                  • #39
                    Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

                    Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post
                    As for service trade, I had a pluber come in for around 40 minutes (i live in a big city) and charge me 2 hours labour at $67/hour and $12 for latex gloves + taxes. I think this is a rip-off, so I refused to pay more than $100, basically 1 hour and 1/2 hour travel.
                    You should have asked him on the phone ahead of time. There really is a lot more to it than just paying him. I sit in an office all day, without travel or "down time", and wages are still 1/3 to 1/2 of our departments total spend.

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                    • #40
                      Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

                      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                      An owner of a business deserves to make more than the average wage. If not then let's all just go get a job. I know I can.
                      I'll disagree with you that anyone deserves to make a particular wage. Seems too much like a sense of entitlement to me. If you don't have the ability to make more than an average wage as an owner, then it isn't worth the hassle.

                      There are certainly advantages to owning your own business (like Okie making up his own rules); but it does come at a price. As an employee you are insulated from the month-to-month downs and ups of the business; and you can't go negative. You're trading that upside potential for a stable stream of income (like bonds instead of stocks).

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                      • #41
                        Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

                        [quote=DRC-Wartex;203266]As for service trade, I had a pluber come in for around 40 minutes (i live in a big city) and charge me 2 hours labour at $67/hour and $12 for latex gloves + taxes. I think this is a rip-off, so I refused to pay more than $100, basically 1 hour and 1/2 hour travel./quote]

                        Did you get a price up front? What was his travel time? Thats just B.S. Get the guy to your house, he does the job, then say its not fair. Now I stand corrected if you never got the price up front, or he lied to you about the charge. But if you didnt get the price up front...then you deserve what you get.

                        Do that to the tow truck operator...see how fast you get your car!

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                        • #42
                          Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

                          Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post
                          I don't know about that man

                          As for service trade, I had a pluber come in for around 40 minutes (i live in a big city) and charge me 2 hours labour at $67/hour and $12 for latex gloves + taxes. I think this is a rip-off, so I refused to pay more than $100, basically 1 hour and 1/2 hour travel.
                          That's wrong. I would tell you to keep your money, and put a lien on your house and get my collection agent on you. That rate seems more than reasonable

                          Originally posted by DRC-Wartex View Post
                          I just had my car fixed - welded in new flex pipe, replace front link assemblies and change break pads - $950 [labour only]. Car was in the shop for 3 hours, tops. That's how much I make in 2 weeks (after deductions). Is that fair?
                          Is that fair? I dunno, but maybe you should've been a mechanic and started your own shop.



                          Tradesmen are NOT dishonest people. Thee are a few bad apples, but the same could be said for dentists, politicians and yes - Computer programmers.
                          West Trail Mechanical Ltd
                          Service. Commitment. Expertise.

                          www.westtrailmechanical.ca

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                          • #43
                            Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

                            Small business owners deserve to make more than the average wage because running your own business is a 24-7 job. I looked into starting my own business about 10 years ago. After looking at the startup costs and the time committment necessary, I realized working for someone really wasn't so bad. I had 2 small kids at the time and weekend time was golden. I don't regret it as I've been with my current co. over 20 yrs.

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                            • #44
                              Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

                              Originally posted by bigPipe09 View Post
                              That's wrong. I would tell you to keep your money, and put a lien on your house and get my collection agent on you.
                              Good idea, but I'd take it to the next level.

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                              • #45
                                Re: At first calm, then mean customer...

                                Originally posted by Plumbus View Post
                                Good idea, but I'd take it to the next level.

                                I - I - I like it!

                                Some mad scientist needs to get started on this.

                                Lenny

                                Pronounced A-Bear Drain Care

                                I know, it doesn't make sense.


                                http://www.hebertdraincare.com

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