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  • galvanized pressure tank

    one of my long time customers has a water tank and pressure system for his water. i won't say domestic water because it's not potable water. it's an art gallery and they don't drink that water.

    he has a galvanized pressure tank on this system. the pressure pump is housed on the side of tank's lower half.

    i've never taken notice to the make and model because the only serious problem he's ever had with it was a bearing assembly gasket where it bolts to the tank. i made a gasket, it's working good so far. i might add that this pump and tank is a south of the border product and it's the best set-up i've ever seen.

    every once on a while over the past couple of years he called me and said that the pump was cycling on and off.

    i knocked on the tank and i could tell that it was waterlogged. so i drained it to just above the pump.

    it doesn't have a bladder.

    should i have added more air to the tank? if so, how much (psi)?

    this is the only one of it's kind here in town. it one tough piece of american metal. 20 years arctic service so far.

    Vince

  • #2
    Re: galvanized pressure tank

    i have seen on old heating systems expansion tanks with out bladders they would drain the tank all the way and when they opened the valve the water would fill 1/3 of the tank

    you should have 1/2 to 1/3 of the tank with air and you should have the air at the same pressure as what you want the system pressure at .
    i think
    Last edited by HVAC HAWK; 01-23-2009, 07:56 PM.
    Charlie

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    • #3
      Re: galvanized pressure tank

      There should be a Air volume control valve on the tank about 2/3 the way up. and the well piping should have a bleed back valve on the first section of pipe below the well head. Air is supposed to be circulated back and forth and enter the tank and be removed thru the snifter valve, back to the well. check out this link for a diagram

      http://www.pumpsonline.com/AirChargePic.htm
      Last edited by mtnman1100; 01-23-2009, 08:57 PM.
      ANYONE CAN TAKE THE HELM WHEN THE SEA IS CALM.

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      • #4
        Re: galvanized pressure tank

        Um...

        You want the air pressure in the tank to be 2pis less than the cut in on the pressure switch, the only way to properly set it up is with a reliable pressure guage, I can explain further if needed.
        sigpic
        www.uandiplumbing.com

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        • #5
          Re: galvanized pressure tank

          Originally posted by U&I Plumber View Post
          Um...

          You want the air pressure in the tank to be 2pis less than the cut in on the pressure switch, the only way to properly set it up is with a reliable pressure guage, I can explain further if needed.
          There is not a bladder to add or subtract air from in this tank. If it was a pre charged tank you would be right U&I. The best way to reset a galvanized tank or air charge system is to drain it completely and let it refill from scratch. Assuming the air volume control valve, snifter valve and bleed back valve are in good order, the air pressure in the tank will regulate itself.

          Uh Vince, I just now got your crack about "south of the border", that was funny.
          ANYONE CAN TAKE THE HELM WHEN THE SEA IS CALM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: galvanized pressure tank

            Originally posted by mtnman1100 View Post
            There should be a Air volume control valve on the tank about 2/3 the way up. and the well piping should have a bleed back valve on the first section of pipe below the well head. Air is supposed to be circulated back and forth and enter the tank and be removed thru the snifter valve, back to the well. check out this link for a diagram

            http://www.pumpsonline.com/AirChargePic.htm
            The systems your referring to were notoriously unreliable. Usually when they fail however the system ends up functioning as though it never existed.

            As to pressurizing the tank you'd want to pressurize it to 10 pounds less then the switches lower setting when the tank is empty.

            1. Turn power off to the pump

            2. Make sure there is a check valve or ball valve between the pump and pressure tank. If it is a ball valve close it(after the job is done make sure to remove the handle so the customer can't play with it).

            3. Put a hose on the draw off and open it. Charge the tank with air till air is coming out of the house.

            4. Close the draw off.

            5. Charge the tank to 10-15 pounds less then the cut in you plan to have the switch at.

            6. Turn the pump back on.

            7. Make sure the switch is set correctly.

            The older non-bladder tanks will regularly lose are do to absorption into the water. Some of them have a plastic float in them to help minimize the amount of contact between the air and water but even those are less then effective. The system has to have air added every year to two years. The customer has four options. Learn to charge it themselves. Plan to have you out for regular maintenance every year. Wait for the system to start clicking on and off and risk damaging the pump then call you. Or replace the tank with a bladder tank.

            Bladder tanks do lose air as well but the recommended time frame for charging them is 7 years.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: galvanized pressure tank

              I do mine differently, weather it is a bladder tank or not.

              First it takes a reliable pressure guage

              Second, you cannot trust factory settings on a pressure switch, new or not.

              Third, all pump systems are required to have a check valve inline before the pressure tank, if the pressure guage looses pressure and the house is isolated the check valve needs replaced.

              1. kill the power to the pump and drain the system off to test the reliability of the pressure guage, if it's broke replace it.

              2. turn the supply valve off that feeds the house, turn the power back on and charge the system.

              3. drain the system off paying close attention to the guage and listening to the pressure switch, if it kicks in where it is supposed to you are good to go, if it needs adjusted you need to repeat 3 until you get it set where you want it.

              4. to add air the system must be totally flat, with the supply still closed to the house add the air to 2psi less than the cut in on the pressure switch.

              5. turn the power back on to the pump and check the pressure switch settings again to be sure.

              6. turn the water back on to the house

              If you do not isolate the house from the system you will fill the lines with air, it is inconvenient.

              I see alot of small pressure tanks in this area and thats why I only go to 2 psi less as this allows for longer run times on the pump, which = longer life on the pump. The reason for less air pressure than cut in on the pressure switch is you want the pump to kick in before the pressure tank runs out of water.

              As far as the re-circulating system, they may work well when new but them air inlet valves will corrode up in a short amount of time anyway, thats why they went with the bladder tanks.
              Last edited by U&I Plumber; 01-27-2009, 11:14 AM.
              sigpic
              www.uandiplumbing.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: galvanized pressure tank

                Originally posted by boytyperanma View Post
                The systems your referring to were notoriously unreliable. Usually when they fail however the system ends up functioning as though it never existed.

                The older non-bladder tanks will regularly lose are do to absorption into the water. Some of them have a plastic float in them to help minimize the amount of contact between the air and water but even those are less then effective. The system has to have air added every year to two years. The customer has four options. Learn to charge it themselves. Plan to have you out for regular maintenance every year. Wait for the system to start clicking on and off and risk damaging the pump then call you. Or replace the tank with a bladder tank.
                An air charge system on a standard or galvanized tank requires a few components that a precharge system does not have. Start in the well with the bleed back valve for the line to drain back to the well from the Snifter valve at the back side of the check valve at the tank to allow the water to drain back to the bleeder valve and allow air to fill the pipe. When there is a call for water from the pressure switch the pump comes on and pushes the air and water in to the tank. Inside the tank is the plastic float that actuates the air volume control valve which is about two thirds of the height on the tank. The air volume control valve balances the amount of air in the standard tank. So if all of the components are working properly, you should not need to add any air to the tank manually, even at start up from 0 PSI and no water.
                ANYONE CAN TAKE THE HELM WHEN THE SEA IS CALM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: galvanized pressure tank

                  Originally posted by mtnman1100 View Post
                  There is not a bladder to add or subtract air from in this tank. If it was a pre charged tank you would be right U&I. The best way to reset a galvanized tank or air charge system is to drain it completely and let it refill from scratch. Assuming the air volume control valve, snifter valve and bleed back valve are in good order, the air pressure in the tank will regulate itself.

                  Uh Vince, I just now got your crack about "south of the border", that was funny.
                  i didn't mean anything by it.

                  it wasn't a crack. it's just another way i refer to our southern coushins.

                  Vince

                  i happy i made you laugh, but i honestly didn't mean anything by it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: galvanized pressure tank

                    Turn off pump, Drain tank, close valve, put 10psi air in the tank, open outside faucet, turn on pump and open tank valve and turn off outside faucet.

                    I have a trailer park and What I did was I've collected a bunch of odd tanks, 1100 gallon boiler tank, 3 x 500 galon round ocean bouys and 4 x 2250 gallon ocean bouys, for pressure tanks ($2500 total for thses tanks, mostlyfrom craigslist), and 2 x 4,000 gallon steel tanks as holding tanks.
                    I bought an old 2hp crftsman air ccompressor and removed the compressor from the tank, perminantly mounted in near the tanks and ran 1/2" copper supply lines from the compressor to all the pressure tanks, with directional valves and shut off valves at each tank. With a flip of a switch I am adding air to any or all of the tanks as I wish. My well is 25 GPM going through 4 rapid sand filters, 6 cartridge filters and a Ultra violet light to clean and kill anything that may be living in the water. This goes into the holding tanks controlled via a float switcch in one of the tanks. From there I have 2 x 2hp booster pumps rated @ 60 GPM each feeding the pressure tanks, one set at a lower kick in pressure than the other and rarely runs unless very high demand.
                    We go through about 24,000 gallons per day, and it seems to work fine.

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