Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Plumbing Mystery Help? Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

    OOPS,,,,,sorry

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

      Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
      I love a good plumbing mystery, don't you?

      Your answer lies in the kitchen. Go there, hog tie the staff and make them listen to Celine Dion at full volume. One of them will crack before she finishes the sountrack to Beauty and The Beast, trust me. This method is a little unorthodox but very effective with these types of things.

      While you're there, check the commercial sprayer on the sink. I'm getting a strong vibe that's where the problem is
      IT........IS.........ALIVE!!!!

      Got the call today & have to work on it tonight. 30 seconds of scalding water.....then cold water. It is NOT the commercial-kitchen-sprayer. The cold was not even on to it! Cut it off anyway just to see. Same problem.

      Got to be a crossover somewhere. Check valve opening when it wants or when the circumstances are right. Driving me nuts.

      J.C.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

        I have a feeling your problem lies with the washing machine. I bet there is some sediment stuck in the solenoid valve from when you changed the recirc pump and this is allowing the cross connection. Try turning off both valves to the washer and see if things don't straighten out.
        Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          Check valve opening when it wants or when the circumstances are right.J.C.
          Does the recirc line tie back into the cold water feed to the heaters? If so, it could be the check valve at the pump sticking open and allowing cold to migrate into the hot system from the back side. If this were the case you would get hot in some places and cold in others sometimes, depending on usage. Not unlike a thermostatic shower valve with no cartridge to act as a gatekeeper.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

            Ok cowboys, there are shutoffs on the inlet and outlet of the water heaters, no mixing valve, shutoffs on both sides of the circulating pump. I shut everything down but the cold main.

            Still get full pressure out of hotside on the top floor.

            J.C.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

              It could be the washing machine like Devine said But I would look at the mop sink. The automatic soap fillers put a shut off and bypass on the spout so people leave the hot and cold on. Just check for a shut off on the spout of a mop sink and that will be the trouble.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

                Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                It could be the washing machine like Devine said But I would look at the mop sink. The automatic soap fillers put a shut off and bypass on the spout so people leave the hot and cold on. Just check for a shut off on the spout of a mop sink and that will be the trouble.
                Thanks for the idea but there is no mop sink. It's a real aggravating scenario.

                Remember there is a separate water heater on the second floor that only provides hot water to that floor and to the 1 washing machine in the building.

                I traced all hot water lines in the ceiling from this heater myself tonight for the second time. Just to make sure.

                That "should" cancel the washing machine.

                Thanks again. All input is welcome.

                I do have one last idea. Should I mention it or let someone guess it?

                It's a long thread to read. I know.

                J.C.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

                  O.K I'm a little confused . Could you shut the shut offs off to the washing machine to make sure that mixing valve isn' t the trouble? Or Is it completly off the system with trouble? Other than that I'm out of ideas

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

                    Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                    O.K I'm a little confused . Could you shut the shut offs off to the washing machine to make sure that mixing valve isn' t the trouble? Or Is it completly off the system with trouble? Other than that I'm out of ideas
                    YOU'RE CONFUSED! ME TOO!! I'm not thinking straight for sure. I will shutoff the valves as you say to make sure. I've done so many things I can't remember if I've done that or not. Good idea to you and Devine.

                    IT IS OFF THE SYSTEM WITH THE TROUBLE.

                    Keep thinking. How much would it cost to fly all the Forum folks here to help me?

                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

                      JC,

                      you mentioned "scalding hot then cold".

                      almost seems to me that the pump is pumping but not circulating. but of course i could be wrong

                      if it were me, i would go there during their down time so that usage can be ruled out. shut off all the fixtures and check the lines with a laser thermometer.

                      is it possible to remove the little HWH/HWT and plumb the fixtures it serves with the hot water from down stairs?

                      i don't know if this will help but does the kitchen have a commercial dishwasher. maybe the rinse/sanitation cycle hot water maker inside the dishwasher might have a bad solinoid?

                      last thing, it's starting to sound like the plumbing it the church may have been installed wrong, right from the very beginning.

                      i don't know. just trying to help.

                      Vince

                      i have pulled check valves apart before only to find out the somebody drilled a little hole in the gate (?) part of the valve. i've seen some older plumbers practice this, but i never took it up as my own. that practice has never really made any vincense() to me.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

                        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                        YOU'RE CONFUSED! ME TOO!! I'm not thinking straight for sure. I will shutoff the valves as you say to make sure. I've done so many things I can't remember if I've done that or not. Good idea to you and Devine.

                        IT IS OFF THE SYSTEM WITH THE TROUBLE.

                        Keep thinking. How much would it cost to fly all the Forum folks here to help me?

                        J.C.
                        Pick me up at the airport and buy lunch, my ticket is only about 80 round trip!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

                          Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
                          Pick me up at the airport and buy lunch, my ticket is only about 80 round trip!


                          it would only cost $3000 return for me to get to winnipeg, then probably another 2 grand return to get to you.

                          or i could jump on a snowmobile with an ATV and a jetski roped onto the sled and see you in about a week and a half.

                          Vince

                          i'll just keep following the southern sun.

                          i'll bring lots of bannock.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

                            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                            Thanks for the idea but there is no mop sink. It's a real aggravating scenario.

                            Remember there is a separate water heater on the second floor that only provides hot water to that floor and to the 1 washing machine in the building.

                            I traced all hot water lines in the ceiling from this heater myself tonight for the second time. Just to make sure.

                            That "should" cancel the washing machine.

                            Thanks again. All input is welcome.

                            I do have one last idea. Should I mention it or let someone guess it?

                            It's a long thread to read. I know.

                            J.C.
                            If you have turned both the hot and cold off to that heater and still have full pressure from the hot side of that line that theoritically eliminates any problem with a recirculating line/check valves. There are either one of two scenerios that I can think of, a cross connection somewhere on the first floor, or the hot line from the second floor heater is connected to the first floor system causing them to run in parallel and you have a cross connection on the second floor or the second floor water heater is being depleted and causing the cold water coming from the hot taps. You may try turning off both water heaters simultaneously and see if the hot water tap still has pressure. If it does not it would eliminate the possibility of a cross connection and the hot systems must be tied together at some point. However, if it does then you would know that you were looking for a cross connection at some fixture, either on the first or second floor.
                            Distractions are everywhere, don't lose sight of your dream.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

                              Originally posted by Vince the Plumber View Post
                              JC,

                              you mentioned "scalding hot then cold".

                              almost seems to me that the pump is pumping but not circulating. but of course i could be wrong

                              if it were me, i would go there during their down time so that usage can be ruled out. shut off all the fixtures and check the lines with a laser thermometer.

                              is it possible to remove the little HWH/HWT and plumb the fixtures it serves with the hot water from down stairs?

                              i don't know if this will help but does the kitchen have a commercial dishwasher. maybe the rinse/sanitation cycle hot water maker inside the dishwasher might have a bad solinoid?

                              last thing, it's starting to sound like the plumbing it the church may have been installed wrong, right from the very beginning.

                              i don't know. just trying to help.

                              Vince

                              i have pulled check valves apart before only to find out the somebody drilled a little hole in the gate (?) part of the valve. i've seen some older plumbers practice this, but i never took it up as my own. that practice has never really made any vincense() to me.
                              Thanks Vince. All good ideas to check. Sometimes check valves are drilled to get a "thermal engine" going. Basically circulating hot water without a pump.

                              J.C.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Plumbing Mystery Help?

                                Originally posted by Vince the Plumber View Post

                                it would only cost $3000 return for me to get to winnipeg, then probably another 2 grand return to get to you.

                                or i could jump on a snowmobile with an ATV and a jetski roped onto the sled and see you in about a week and a half.

                                Vince

                                i'll just keep following the southern sun.

                                i'll bring lots of bannock.
                                Be summer here soon. I'd have to pick you pick you up in a reefer to keep you alive.

                                J.C.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X