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  • Tankless flush

    tankless water heaters require flushing and cleaning on a regular basis. unfortunately 90% of all tankless that i come across, have not been installed properly. this includes the lack of a bypass valve to allow for flushing and servicing.

    this particular job had a few issues. the install is only 1.5 years old and is a 235,000 btu takagi heater. the original contractor installed a 1/2'' id flex line rated for 150,000 btu's. also there were no flushing / bypass valves.

    so i rasied the heater to accommodate the bypass valves and replaced the gas valve and flex that's rated for 290,000 btu's.

    then i removed the filter screen from the cold inlet and flushed the heater with a vinegar solution to clean out the mineral deposits.

    and finally sitting down to eat a chili burger and fries that the owner went out to get me


    talking to the owner, they were never informed about flushing and they never installed a remote control thermostat. the factory default setting is 122. next setting was 141, which is a little high plus the extra gas and wear and tear.


    their concerns was the time delay to get hot water. also lack of real volume.

    rick.




    Attached Files
    Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 03-06-2009, 02:48 AM.
    phoebe it is

  • #2
    Re: Tankless flush

    mmm chili burger


    burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp!!



    So how dirty was that solution when it was done, and for how long?


    On my own tankless water hater, I'd want to use something stronger than vineager.
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    • #3
      Re: Tankless flush

      dunbar, i let the solution run for 45 minutes. the color was a blueish green when finished.

      the filter was removed while flushing and then reinstalled.

      i would be cautious with anything non potable. vinegar will not kill you.

      but that burger might
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tankless flush

        seems like a lot of future work on these
        Seattle Drain Service

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tankless flush

          Originally posted by Cuda View Post
          seems like a lot of future work on these
          For sure, but like Rick says, a lot of home owners were never informed about preventive maintenance AND there were no provisions piped in for flushing purposes. Sounds like you guys get to do some education with your customers.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tankless flush

            It is hard to find qualified installers.
            I went through the Rheem class on tankless and there was no time spent on draining and flushing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tankless flush

              Noritz recommends flushing every 3 years, what do other manufacturers recommend?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tankless flush

                Originally posted by pioneer1 View Post
                Noritz recommends flushing every 3 years, what do other manufacturers recommend?
                i would say it's based on the water conditions/ chemistry/ hardness, operating temperature

                i can tell you 3 years will never fly in beverly hills as the water is very hard.

                there is no set time. unfortunately most homeowners i talk to that own tankless, never knew of the flushing requirements.

                i just replaced a 40 gallon american appliance nautilus heater that was 22 years old and never, ever flushed or serviced. lets see if we can say that with a tankless.

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Tankless flush

                  This is where the micro seasnake would be beneficial to see inside that compartment, to see how well the compartment was cleaned.


                  It's good that you got something of evidence that it was cleaned.
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                  • #10
                    Re: Tankless flush

                    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                    i would say it's based on the water conditions/ chemistry/ hardness, operating temperature

                    i can tell you 3 years will never fly in beverly hills as the water is very hard.

                    there is no set time. unfortunately most homeowners i talk to that own tankless, never knew of the flushing requirements.

                    i just replaced a 40 gallon american appliance nautilus heater that was 22 years old and never, ever flushed or serviced. lets see if we can say that with a tankless.

                    rick.
                    My mothers water heater was installed in 1979 still working. It has never been drained .
                    It has a True Value label on it. I Suppose it is US Craftsmaster.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tankless flush

                      Nice job rick.

                      Question: I noticed that you installed a t&p as i do on tankless installs, but do you guys think that a t&p, or thermal expansion tank, or aux drain pan is neccessary on a tankless install.

                      I say no to all three. The water is not going to heat unless there is flow, so there is no need to install t&p. The unit has safety in place for overheating (i'm sure its some sort of ASTM something or other). No heating a tank so no need to install thermal exp tank, i don't think there is any arguments there. No tank to leak out 50 gals of water if it leaked so no need for aux drain pan (won't spend alot of time here as we hope to find installs outside whenever possible).

                      Here's my delima. We are on IPC. The IPC states that a thermal exspansion device must be installed if there is a potential for the pressure in lines to increase beyond the pressure setting of PRV. Couldn't that happen with a tankless since pressure and temp are directly related? At the moment that you turn hot water off at the fixture wouldn't pressure be higher than say the cold water line? And they must have a t&p. doesn't say tankless, or tank-style, or gas or electric. Just says water heater or hot water storage tank.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tankless flush

                        Is that chili burger from Tommy's?

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Tankless flush

                          Gas volume is ok with the little bit of 1/2" run there.It looks like a 3/4x1/2 90.
                          I'm assuming 1/4 lb gas pressure? Gas-wise those are thirsty little units.
                          Here in Mpls our water runs about 4 grains hardness and the mfg's recommendations on most are flush one a year.
                          It's friday and now I want a chili burger. :-(
                          Fish or none.
                          Last edited by Jay Mpls; 03-06-2009, 01:04 PM. Reason: Awwwwwwwww.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Tankless flush

                            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                            tankless water heaters require flushing and cleaning on a regular basis. unfortunately 90% of all tankless that i come across, have not been installed properly. this includes the lack of a bypass valve to allow for flushing and servicing.
                            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post

                            this particular job had a few issues. the install is only 1.5 years old and is a 235,000 btu takagi heater. the original contractor installed a 1/2'' id flex line rated for 150,000 btu's. also there were no flushing / bypass valves.

                            so i rasied the heater to accommodate the bypass valves and replaced the gas valve and flex that's rated for 290,000 btu's.
                            First of all, good job adding the isolation valves, it reduces a lot of headaches for future service issues. The re-pipe looks clean.

                            Some units require more maintenance than others depending on water quality and type of unit.


                            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                            then i removed the filter screen from the cold inlet and flushed the heater with a vinegar solution to clean out the mineral deposits.


                            Vinegar is the only solution I would use through the heat exchanger...anything else will open you up to damaging the copper coils inside.

                            The calcification that occurs in the heat exchanger is light.....once the heat exchanger loses it ability to remove heat correctly the high limit pops.

                            If you disconnect the high limit from the coil and continue to operate it...the fusable link around the heat exchanger will pop cutting off your gas valve.

                            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                            and finally sitting down to eat a chili burger and fries that the owner went out to get me


                            YUM!....nice customer you have there!


                            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                            talking to the owner, they were never informed about flushing and they never installed a remote control thermostat. the factory default setting is 122. next setting was 141, which is a little high plus the extra gas and wear and tear.
                            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post


                            their concerns was the time delay to get hot water. also lack of real volume.

                            rick.
                            Were you able to up-sale them on a controller?

                            Why would they want the water set higher than 122?

                            Kudos!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Tankless flush

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                              i would say it's based on the water conditions/ chemistry/ hardness, operating temperature

                              i can tell you 3 years will never fly in beverly hills as the water is very hard.

                              there is no set time. unfortunately most homeowners i talk to that own tankless, never knew of the flushing requirements.

                              i just replaced a 40 gallon american appliance nautilus heater that was 22 years old and never, ever flushed or serviced. lets see if we can say that with a tankless.

                              rick.
                              It greatly depends on what kind of tankless you have. Most manufactures have moved to the bypass type of tankless, this is where the problem is.

                              I have an older TK1s in my house, I have 22 grains hardness and I have never had to flush mine in 4 years.

                              If you want to know more about bypass systems....I can explain. Just let me know.

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