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  • Black plastic water service?

    I was doing a service call for a pinhole leak.The serice was this black plastic that I have never run across.The transition fitting to the male threads to the street side valve was loose and never leaked but scared the hell out of me!
    What is this pipe and what is this fitting how does it work.
    It would be nice to figure this out before I NEED to.
    Thanks.

  • #2
    Re: Black plastic water service?

    I just saw one for the first time in a long time yesterday. Scares me too.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Black plastic water service?

      Ppe ?
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Black plastic water service?

        Originally posted by Jay Mpls View Post
        I was doing a service call for a pinhole leak.The serice was this black plastic that I have never run across.The transition fitting to the male threads to the street side valve was loose and never leaked but scared the hell out of me!
        What is this pipe and what is this fitting how does it work.
        It would be nice to figure this out before I NEED to.
        Thanks.
        Some municipalities I have ran into in my area used a pigtail of pipe out of the meter that is a bastard sized polyethylene. Normal fittings wouldn't work. The ONLY one that would work was an off size sharkbite type fitting.

        They also sometime use a union that won't leak but is kind of shaky. That connection belongs to the municipal service. At least in my area. Leak there, it belongs to them.

        J.C.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Black plastic water service?

          we've had pretty good luck with ford fittings on that stuff too, we've used it for larger diameter undergrounds.
          No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Black plastic water service?

            Originally posted by Drip Trip
            Polyethylene Pipe. Stuff is indestructible and great for colder climates.

            Don't be afraid it don't bite....much.

            To insert the barbed fittings you have to heat up the pipe end and get that fitting in the pipe. Secure this with 2 hose clamps and vilioa! yer done.

            Worst leak I ever had was when I didn't push the pipe far enough and didn't tighten the clamps. Had to dig out that 6' mud hole. The weather was colder than a ex-wife and had a buncha temps with me....miserable job.
            Closer! I have seen this with the 2 hose clamps but not on this job!
            Then..this jiggly fitting that is the municipals problem..not in MN.
            Yours all the way to the street tap!
            So what is the jiggly fitting? how the heck does it work...or fail.

            Edit: Found this but no fittings yet.
            http://www.charterplastics.com/pdf/p...-idr-black.pdf

            Thanks JC..I think this is it.What is it how does it work ?..but here is a pic
            Last edited by Jay Mpls; 05-27-2009, 10:29 PM. Reason: D'oh

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            • #7
              Re: Black plastic water service?

              I'm pretty sure I've seen it. A union looking connection, right?

              Nut at the outlet of the meter but it's shaky?

              Fortunately here that connection is often the water provider so I've called and turned the screw on them to work on it or change it.

              So I haven't bothered to become more familiar with them.

              Check with the municipal water service first. Sometimes they can surprise you how helpful they can be. Especially once you get someone that actually works on the meters.

              There are suppliers that are also geared toward muni's water service and some plumbing supply houses carry the meters that may use the union (if that's what you're seeing) connection.

              I'll keep looking in books/net.

              Good luck.

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Black plastic water service?

                if you can read anything on the pipe it should either say for example "3/4 cts 200 psi", and the pipe is the same od as copper tube. use ford brand cts fittings with stainless stiffners it makes solid conection. or something like "1" ips 160 psi". use barbed insert fittings with two hose clamps, heat the pipe and shove till it bottoms out and reef the clamps tight while its still warm.
                "Do it so you can go to sleep at night."

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                • #9
                  Re: Black plastic water service?

                  If it's what I'm thinking of, the traditional heat-double clamp won't work. There are no standard threads on it and there is a union connection with black polyethylene just sticking through the nut.

                  I think there is an insert in the black pipe and actually a rubber seal that mates to the meter. That's why it's shaky.

                  Don't like this connection as it isn't easily adaptable or stable.

                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Black plastic water service?

                    I think MoJourney and DripTrip probably are in the area of what you're seeing.

                    Here's a link that may help. Around page 5.

                    J.C.

                    http://www.fordmeterbox.com/catpdfs/HJPEG.pdf

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                    • #11
                      Polybutylene?

                      Could be. Came in black, grey & blue. Class action lawsuites against this stuff and it should be replaced. Barbed fittings & clamps will work if the pipe isn't too brittle. They sell a fitting at HD/Lowes that is barbed on one side and pvc female on the other. Allows for repair with pvc pipe. They also sell a special pvc compression coupling that has internal teeth to stop slipping. PB is nasty stuff. If it is PB then the repair should be noted as a stop gap measure only with NO WARRANTY, allowing the Customer breathing room to decide when to replace completely.


                      Here's a picture that I lifted from another website. Not a lot of good pictures out there, but 1 inch Pb is not unusual here in South OC.

                      #24 PB

                      Last edited by JeffH; 05-28-2009, 09:09 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Black plastic water service?

                        Around me polyethylene pipe is the norm for underground lines. There are two types I use for my business(wells and water pumps) Both are black in color. Town plastic can also be commonly found in blue.

                        Standard stuff for me is based on inside diameter, so 1" 200lbs pipe is slightly larger OD then 1" 160lbs pipe. Both use hose barb type fittings inserted by heating the pipe then are clamped on the outside.

                        The municipalities(and less frequently me) use 'town plastic' the town plastics size is based on the outside diameter of corresponding copper pipes, so a 1" 200lbs and 1" 160 lbs both have a outside diameter matching 1" copper the 1" 200lbs has a slightly smaller ID. For connections town plastic use compression fittings with a metal insert on the inside. The fittings do allow a slight amount of play but i would not describe it as loose. The fittings are universal and usable on copper pipe as well(in which case an insert is not used).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Black plastic water service?

                          HDPE (high density polyethylene)?

                          if it's the same stuff we use up here then the stuff is pretty much indestructable. at least in my opinion.

                          Jay, check JC's link with the ford meter company. very helpful.

                          it works very well up here in the perma-frost.

                          just a couple of hints; you need the SS stiffener insert, tighten the nut on the plastic side of the coupler/adapter squeaks then tighten the locking collar

                          Vince

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                          • #14
                            Re: Black plastic water service?

                            I've been using poly pipe for water service for the 33 years I've been in business. I usually use insert fittings. We are required to use brass. 100% SS clamps. But there are also mechanical fittings that have been used a lot around here. Just push the pipe in and pull back to lock it. Since the stuff expands and contracts, I've never trusted them, but they seem to work.

                            Some of the municipalities took to requiring blue for water lines, so I've been stocking it in blue rather than black. I've always used the 200 PSI water service rather than the 160. Since the area is flat, the city pressures are around 50 psi here. I've never had a failure of this pipe. Any time I've had to dig some up, the moron put in either 80 psi or 100 psi - not water service.

                            They used to require that there be at least 5' of metal pipe from the building, but now you can run it right inside and put a single joint on before transitioning to something else. This was partly because electrical code required hooking a ground to the plumbing.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Black plastic water service?

                              JC, that ford link is the bomb.We have a supply house in St paul that carries the Ford line to connect to LEAD water service in that part of town (St paul MN).
                              I steer my customers to spring for a new service...even if I don't make a dime!
                              BUT..you do what you can to help them out.

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