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  • Symmons tub and shower valve

    hey guys
    I've run into a bunch of symmons S-96-2 tub and shower valves that pour water out the tub spout when in diverter set onto shower.
    I know symmons valves trickle water out the tub spout when in shower mode normally ( this is how there designed to work) but the ones I've bumped into have more going to the spout than the shower head.
    I replace the diverter and use a fitting brush to clean out the chamber and then flush it out. grease up the new diverter, and try it ...same problem... I've run them all without the trim in case the trim ( dome) was not allowing the diveter to swing all the way.... I've also taken off the shower head to see if there was a back pressure problem??? I don't get it I have to put a diverter tub spout on to stop the waste of water.....
    I just can't believe the chamber wears away and allows water to pass by ???
    I've rebuilt hundreds of these valves and never had a problem so 5 or 6 out of the thousands of valves I've seen is not bad.... but still why are some doing this?

    anyone have a clue what's going on?
    I know this is mostly a Massachusetts thing ,every house build from the 70's to now had to have a balancing spindle and the only one aproved in mass was the symmons.... so every house has one.

    thanks in advance for the help guys we really have a bunch of clever guys here.


    Steve
    Last edited by Any Small Job Plumbing; 07-15-2009, 07:56 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Symmons tub and shower valve

    Call Symmons. They goofed on a large batch of TA-10 spindles before( the scuttlebutt was a draftsman was pissed about making the spindles out of the country so he redrew the spindles to screw up(pun) from the offshore factory) . They could easily goof on a batch of diverters if they outsource them.

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    • #3
      Re: Symmons tub and shower valve

      thanks myakka

      but I go to a call where the customer says more water comes out the tub spout than the shower head... I change the 10 - 20 year old diverter and it still happens...

      I also change symmons diverters all the time ( a couple a month) and never have a problem... so I don't think it's the batch of diverters I have.... this is been going on for about 6 months

      but good thought
      I'll give Symmons a call
      thanks

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      • #4
        Re: Symmons tub and shower valve

        Right diverter? I know-dumb question. But sometimes parts look similar and fit.

        Just asking as I have very little experience in my area.

        The diverter worked fine for 20 years, then began to leak, and the new one behaves in the same way? Correct?

        I'll have to look at a schematic. Maybe it's related to the main valve internals.

        Hmmm.... Thinking.

        J.C.

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        • #5
          Re: Symmons tub and shower valve

          ...scuttlebutt was a draftsman was pissed about making the spindles out of the country...
          That man deserves a medal.
          "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

          https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

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          • #6
            Re: Symmons tub and shower valve

            If I'm looking at the right drawing, they do list a T-23A and T-24B Diverter Spindle.

            I do NOT have experience with them. Are they interchangeable?

            J.C.

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            • #7
              Re: Symmons tub and shower valve

              there are two diverters one for showers ...those are black .......

              and one for tub and shower those are white.

              I'm using the right one.

              the one's that were in there for 20 years.... I don't think it just started having the problem but got worse over the years.... but I just can't believe the cast brass body wears down enough to let water flow by... these bodies look fine when you look into them with a flashlight and the diverter fits tight.... it's got to be the main body of the valve ( diverter chamber ) that wears and becomes larger.... just hard to believe what water can do... if that is what's happening.

              thanks for all the thoughts.

              Steve

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              • #8
                Re: Symmons tub and shower valve

                Please post what you do find when you correct this. I'd be interested to know.

                Thanks.

                J.C.

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                • #9
                  Re: Symmons tub and shower valve

                  Strange problem, being from Mass myself I too work on a lot of symmons and never had this issue. Clean it out, new diverter, lube, and that always takes care of it. There's no way a plastic diverter is gonna wear out a brass shr valve. Maybe turning the diverter with a screwdriver with valve on to make sure the diverter handle is doing it's job? Let us know what you find.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Symmons tub and shower valve

                    I called Symmons today.
                    asked about the problem and the tech guy told me he had heard the question before but couldn't imagine why it was happening other than the valve body wearing away.

                    I've only had maybe half a dozen doing this... i've rebuilt thousands of them. so I guess we'll chalk it up to the body wearing...

                    but thanks everyone for the idea's


                    Steve

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                    • #11
                      Steve,
                      I know this has been several years but did you ever get any more information on this issue where too much water is flowing to the tub when the diverter is in the shower position. I am running into this now. I have tried all the things you mention here but cannot reduce the flow to the tub back to the normal amount
                      Dave

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                      • #12
                        So I too own one of these valves, from 1986, and it's been having this problem for several years. It's not in the shower I normally use, so I wasn't able to observe a causing event, vs a gradual increase in the flow coming from the tub spout during showering. My wife pointed out the flow to me. I measured the amount, and a gallon of water comes out the spout in 45 seconds; it's the same temperature as the shower water (ie lots of heated water being wasted!). This also happens with the shower head removed.

                        I called Symmons after trying several new diverters, and even plugging that hole in the end of the diverter with epoxy. They sent me an oversized diverter (TA-25A OVERSIZED). I'm not sure what is "oversized" because it measures the same size (length and diameter) as the standard diverter. (Maybe I should dig out a micrometer.) I just installed this oversized one, and no luck, the flow is still happening. Symmons promised to stand behind their product. I have to give them credit.

                        Perhaps the wearing away theory is best. Water has to be finding its way around the diverter's end, and out the tub outlet.

                        My water is well water, and slightly acidic (slight blue discolorations in tub and sink.). I hate to think what's happening to my water pipes.

                        Pete

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                        • #13
                          I never did figure it out Dave and pjksr02 I've told my customers my only option was to replace the valve, or put on a diverter tub spout in ...so far they just let it waste a little water.

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