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  • #16
    Re: OK, I've had enough

    You forgot about the most prestigious book on the market for plumbing.

    http://www.amazon.com/Plumbing-Dummi.../dp/0764551744

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: OK, I've had enough

      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
      Times are tough out there. So tough that a lot of long established plumbing companies are either laying off significant portions of their staff or closing the doors completely. Enrollment in plumbing apprentice classes is down better than 50% nation wide from a couple years ago. Salaries are down or frozen, benefits are hard to come by. A once proud and lucrative trade is slowly dying. So here we are on these DIY forums, freely giving advice and years of knowledge and experiance to homeowners, contractors, handymen, hell any schmuck thats asks us nicely. WHY? why in gods name are we so damn willing to sell out our trade and lively hood just so that we can stroke our ego's ? See me everyone. I'm so smart. I know all the answers. I'll lead you through your whole re-model for FREE. Well no more for me. The only thing anyone is getting from me on other forums is "call a professional" or humerous remarks. I for one am tired of sticking the knife into my own damn back. I've had this discussion with others before and those that defend their actions always give the same lame excuse. " They are going to do it anyway, so why not help them out" Know what? Probably right. But I would prefer to let them DIY and F*&% it all up so that one of us has to go in and fix it.
      You realize this is like standing in the middle of a nude beach and complaining about all of the naked people. As has been mentioned before, DIYs are nothing new only the ability to ask the questions over the Internet is. There was a time where most would not hire a plumber except for new work or major problems, now we have people calling a plumber to replace a flapper.

      The trade is in trouble but not because of DIYs. The trade is in trouble because plumbers have allowed the methods and materials to be dumb down to the level where non skilled labor can install inferior systems which may or may not work.

      If you are against giving advice to DIYs, the simple answer is to not click the button.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: OK, I've had enough

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        The trade is in trouble but not because of DIYs. The trade is in trouble because plumbers have allowed the methods and materials to be dumb down to the level where non skilled labor can install inferior systems which may or may not work.


        Mark
        I have to AGREE with that as well, That's an excellent Point,

        I do think it's a "Perfect Trio" as they say.

        1) Create a Product Like Pex

        2) Get It Approved by the PLumbing Board / Put It In The Code

        3) Then allow Home Depot to teach Saturday classes on "The same stuff as the Pro's use" ( Pex etc etc )

        Personally -

        I think that Plumbing Supplies should be ONLY sold to people WITH LICENSES....Kinda like in the 80's when ONLY a auto mechanic or a/c guy could buy freon,

        So I guess it really just comes down to a whole "mix"

        SO with that said,

        I think that making "plumbing supplies" Illegal TO buy without a license would fix the entire DIY problem.

        Then again, I am just some crazy dude,

        I also THINK the fella's had it RIGHT in 1888

        http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25707

        Help With Your Pool Or Spa Pump?►WeT HeaD Pump Repair ► Watch Me On YouTube: Pool & Spa Pump Repair TV
        New: Pump Repair MagazineNew: Pool & Spa Pump Repair Forums

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: OK, I've had enough

          First off Mark, I would never! stand in the middle of a nude beach and complain about all the nekkid people (unless they were all old fat and ugly)

          Plumbskool -> Thanks for saving me the effort of digging that up. This debate has indeed gone on for more generations than I can count.

          I bring up these topics (in the pro section) for healthy debate and hope some good and enlightenment come of them. They should be kept civil. So far it has. If the topic was not topical then the post would probably not have been nominated nor got quite so many thanks either. And I do think there is a place for dialog between homeowners and professionals. What I object to is step by step instructions given to a person that may or may not have the skills or integrity to do the job correctly and have it inspected. We have a responsibility to the public as a whole, not just the DIY guy asking the question.
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Re: OK, I've had enough

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post

            I bring up these topics (in the pro section) for healthy debate and hope some good and enlightenment come of them. They should be kept civil. So far it has. If the topic was not topical then the post would probably not have been nominated nor got quite so many thanks either.
            Another good point, I mean it's not in the "open discussion" area,

            This post is inside the " Professional Plumbing Discussion " so, to me its like "Bsing in the supply house" or "At the counter" of the supply house.

            PLUS - There are many "professionals" not happy about the DIY market / area etc. Might as let them vent in the "professionals area"

            Nothing wrong with healthy debates as long as the "topic" is what stays centered, I mean if there was no "back and forth" then this would be a blog NOT a forum

            And I also agree, this thread has been totally civil so far anyhow
            Help With Your Pool Or Spa Pump?►WeT HeaD Pump Repair ► Watch Me On YouTube: Pool & Spa Pump Repair TV
            New: Pump Repair MagazineNew: Pool & Spa Pump Repair Forums

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: OK, I've had enough

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              If the topic was not topical then the post would probably not have been nominated nor got quite so many thanks either..
              AGREED!!!


              Another Excellent point and In fact I have never seen so many "Thanks" & "Individuals" nominate one thread like below:

              Have a looksie...WOW !!



              psssst - Guys thats THIS THREAD:

              http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27186

              Attached Files
              Help With Your Pool Or Spa Pump?►WeT HeaD Pump Repair ► Watch Me On YouTube: Pool & Spa Pump Repair TV
              New: Pump Repair MagazineNew: Pool & Spa Pump Repair Forums

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: OK, I've had enough

                A pros only forum?

                And just how hard is it for a flipper or handyman to draw info off it?



                1984
                That was the year my friend was on a campain to get contractors to stop hiring non-citizens.Currently there are only 6 out of 100 that are caucasian.

                Change is coming.It always has been.

                Generals doing whatever trade they want with unskilled labor.
                Contractors using illegals.

                I'm helping others.

                P.S.
                Not one call this week
                Last edited by drtyhands; 07-31-2009, 06:34 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: OK, I've had enough

                  What drty said.

                  DIYs (and generals who use illegals) have never been our customers, so who cares? I will pick up their repair work sometime down the line.

                  I admit to searching for a repair method once or twice - for a better way - and ended up on a diy site. Didn't learn much, but it reinforced how great I am.
                  (The Low Spark of Steel-Toed Boys)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: OK, I've had enough

                    Rick wrote:
                    >> "as you can see there are some that blame the diy and handymen for taking work away from them and then there are some like me and other that just accept it as reality."

                    I'm currently an engineering consultant. I provide a service. Many of my clients have their own engineering staff. Clients call consultants when they need help or their in-house staff doesn't have expertise to solve a particular issue. Seems to me that it is unreasonable for me to resent the client's in-house capability. The only jobs I get or should get are the ones that the client can't do, or doesn't have the time or money to do. That's what being in the service business is about. They don't owe me anything! Whenever they call me, they are doing me a huge favor!!

                    If they call for some simple info or a quick answer, I (and most other engineering consultants) are happy to talk to them. Chalk it up as a marketing expense. Besides, if I don't talk to them, give them some info or whatever, they'll call another consultant and then that guy replaces me as the "go-to" guy in their rolodex.

                    If the client needs more than a quick answer, then I suggest that they will need to retain my services. Most often, they're inclined to agree because they know that I'm not BSing them, nor am I trying to parlay a simple matter into a contract. They're happy... and they'll call me back when they need some real work that they really can't handle.

                    I won't presume to speak for anyone else, but for myself, I've always tried to do as much as I could around my home, dating long before the internet. There are other ways to get information, research and learn how to tackle a specific project. If a homeowner is cut from that cloth, he's simply not calling a plumber to fix his toilet or replace his water heater no matter what is offered/not offered on this forum.

                    Having said that I am very appreciative of all the information and advice. It saves me time researching my questions and probably has saved me from making some mistakes. However, honestly the forum doesn't cause me to do a project I otherwise wouldn't do. With due respect, if you believe it does, I think that's a little unrealistic.

                    >> honestly, why do the ones that complain about helping the diy/ handyman even bother coming here?

                    I would only add to Rick's comments that, as a non-pro, I would respect anyone that decided it wasn't in their interest to contribute. I don't think that in reality this forum has much to do with the pro plumber's revenue stream, but it's all an opinion and you all have to decide what your position is.

                    >> guys times were ruff when i started full time in 1981. but blaming it on others is not the answer.

                    Yes. As I see it, even if everyone that came to the Ridgid plumbing forum called a plumber, how many would call one of the pros on this board? We might like to, but you are scattered all over the country. I don't think it would amount to even a hill of beans in terms of actual billable work.

                    Keep in mind that many folks that are inclined to get dirty doing home projects, do so during good times as well as bad times. It's just what we do.

                    But, having owned a business (high performance/racing engine shop) I appreciate how frustrating it is to see income drop and how tempting it is to find something to pin the problem on. Fact is, though, that slow times are just slow times and things are going to be rough if your name is on the wall.

                    BTW, I seldom call pros, but my activities generate work for the trades. My friends (particularly wives) see some of the stuff I do to my humble abode and next thing you know, they're renovating their places... adding pot fillers or water softeners or whatever.... except they're calling you folks to do it because hubby doesn't have the skill, tools or time to do it. You're welcome.

                    Once again, I do respect you pros and appreciate the time and willingness of so many of you to help. I hope things pick up out there.

                    -Andy

                    PS- things suck in the tech world right now too. Only software and chip design are good, and even those continue to move to the cheaper labor markets. Oh, and petroleum engineering... great money if you want to be an American in the middle east... no thanks....
                    Last edited by Andy_M; 08-01-2009, 03:14 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: OK, I've had enough

                      We ended up with a True Value hardware store by accident and im seeing it more and more of DIY's coming in for products and asking way too many questions sure its geat for counter sales when the service call end is slow but it makes my blood pressure rise. The other week i had a guy come in for a bottle of liquid fire, he asked me if this is the best we had, i asked him what type of clog, he said a toilet, i replied with never use a drain cleaner in a toilet it will crack the bowl, he bought it anyway and left. just the other day i had a guy buy a Quest fitting and didnt have any idea how to use it. And just while i was typing this post a guy called and asked me a question about his "central air conditioner" he said it was going into defrost and said it had been serviced two or three years ago and the "guy" added coolant i told him its like working on a car in a parking lot 5 miles down the road and asked if he would like to set up a service call, "ill call back later"
                      "Do it so you can go to sleep at night."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: OK, I've had enough

                        When we first got a pc at home, I was really into showing off my plumbing skills online, especially at theplumber.com. and terrylove. I got sick of the take-take-take by the posters with no give back, never even a thank you. I have gradually realized that I was whoring myself out for nothing, not even a kiss. The worst thing was the freaking handymen and women asking how to cut our throats and the moron plumbers sharpening the effing razors! Enough of the madness! It's not our fault if diyers and hacks blow themselves up, or pollute the water supply, we don't have to babysit them thru the process. If they are going to do it, let them. Backflow prevention didn't become an issue until enough people died. If the hacks start thinning the herd, the remainder of the herd will start mooing for more licensing and inspections.
                        My name is Jeff, I am an advice giver. "Hello Jeff." I made it one more day with out giving DIY advice.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: OK, I've had enough

                          I, for the life of me, can't see why anyone could complain about giving advice or guidence on a DIY forum. If you think what you're doing here takes away from your business profit margins what's the point of being here? I know this is a professional plumbing discussion forum and some of you have been influenced by a poster who I won't call out by name, but most of you have been helpful to newbies seeking advice who didn't "know it all". I for one, would rather guide a person in the right direction electrically than read about him in the obituraries. I'm sure you're helping DIYers avert mistakes helps to make the RIDGID forum what it is. I enjoy coming on to this website and interacting with the members here. Let's keep it enjoyable.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: OK, I've had enough

                            Originally posted by killavolt View Post
                            I, for the life of me, can't see why anyone could complain about giving advice or guidence on a DIY forum. If you think what you're doing here takes away from your business profit margins what's the point of being here? I know this is a professional plumbing discussion forum and some of you have been influenced by a poster who I won't call out by name, but most of you have been helpful to newbies seeking advice who didn't "know it all". I for one, would rather guide a person in the right direction electrically than read about him in the obituraries. I'm sure you're helping DIYers avert mistakes helps to make the RIDGID forum what it is. I enjoy coming on to this website and interacting with the members here. Let's keep it enjoyable.

                            Well, I can't answer for the others, but I come here because a bunch of these guys are my friends and truthfully, if I it was not for this single forum, I probably would never have connected with any of them. Besides the DIY section there is also this and the HCAV and the non political political bit where I can argue politics with Herbert and Tinmack. I try real hard to not give specific advise on the other section, however there are times when the poster really needs to hear and understand the words HIRE A PROFESSIONAL. Honestly I don't give a crap about some guy changing a tub spout or a toilet flapper. But right now as I am typing this some poor guy is in the process of digging up a small section of galvanized water supply with the hopes of repairing a small section of it and being done, when we all know damn well that what he's doing is very temporary at best. This is a job that needs to be done right and perminantly.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: OK, I've had enough

                              Originally posted by bigt8r View Post
                              HELP!

                              A friend of mine had the water department show up at his house, stating that they had been estimating his water usage over the last 6 months, and that when they checked his meter, his extra usage had cost him about $600. They told him he had a leak, and he'd want to get it fixed.

                              I told him I'd help him out since I was good at this kind of thing, because he recently got laid off and couldn't afford a plumber to come out, so I started digging where the soil was soggy.

                              I exposed a 3/4" galv. water main, and it has a brick area buried around it, and the water valve for the front hose branches off of it, and both pipes continue into the foundation, where they appear to be completely encased in concrete.

                              The main comes from the street into the brick area, where it has a valve (where leak was) about 1" inside of the brick, not much clearance. It goes an inch or two, and there is a standard tee which is the branch for the hose valve.

                              I tried to unscrew the first valve, and the house side of it unscrewed, the street side, which was where the leak was, was apparently so rusted (go figure) that the end disintegrated, and I couldn't get the valve out, nothing wanted to budge.

                              I screwed the valve back into place and went to Home Depot to see if I could get a 3/4" pipe threader, so I could cut the pipe back a ways and replace it, but no success. Found fiberglass/epoxy leak repair kits instead, and tried that. Doesn't leak. Water pressure is considerably lower. Need to fix. What now?

                              I was thinking about maybe cutting the street side of the pipe back a few feet (so I could have some room to work), and replacing the valve and that section, and maybe leak-patch-kitting it back together, but now that I've read a couple of comments about leak-patches, I'm wondering what I should do next.

                              Thanks for your time,
                              Brian
                              [QUOTE=NHMaster3015;243889]Well, I can't answer for the others, but I come here because a bunch of these guys are my friends and truthfully, if I it was not for this single forum, I probably would never have connected with any of them. Besides the DIY section there is also this and the HCAV and the non political political bit where I can argue politics with Herbert and Tinmack. I try real hard to not give specific advise on the other section, however there are times when the poster really needs to hear and understand the words HIRE A PROFESSIONAL. Honestly I don't give a crap about some guy changing a tub spout or a toilet flapper. But right now as I am typing this some poor guy is in the process of digging up a small section of galvanized water supply with the hopes of repairing a small section of it and being done, when we all know damn well that what he's doing is very temporary at best. This is a job that needs to be done right and perminantly.[/QUOTE]


                              i know i said i was not going to post on this thread, but i want to set the record straight.

                              the guy/ brian is attempting to fix the gal water line is fighting most likely a loosing battle. but in his defense, he is helping out a friend for free that can't afford a plumber. so while most had advised him to do a new main, the ones that understand where he's coming from, are glad to lend a helping hand.

                              logging off of this thread again

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: OK, I've had enough

                                And that's fine I guess, but are your really doing either of them a service? You know as well as I do that the poor guy is going to go to all that trouble, only to do it all over again in a week or a couple months. Is it really better to waste the time, money and effort, or better to get it over with and make a perminant repair?
                                sigpic

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