Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse

How To Post Images

Want to know the how to upload images to your posts? Image Posting Tutorial
See more
See less

Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
    Wow a picture of a ring leaking. Improper installation. Thats terrific. Can't argue crappy install for any sorta product merit.

    I did check them both, still checking the copper one

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

      I do agree with you goose, that if you resist pex too much, you'll just end up losing out to the companies that embrace the change.

      I think a lot of the resistance to it comes from the pride taken in a well done copper job, Something that, while still there, isn't as tangible with a pex install.

      in the home I build to retire in, type L copper, all the way. when I repipe this one, it's looking more and more like Wirsbo. just from the cost standpoint.
      No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

        Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
        Wirsbo looks fine. I have never seen a crooked pipe affect anything of the plumbing system other than the looks.

        Regardless, how it looks, it still works. Was the point. But hey, choose a pipe for how it LOOKS. I bet they can paint it pink for you to if ya want.

        That is why the companies that swear by copper and cuss pex, are losing jobs to companies that install both. You can't compete with prices, and will lose bids. True story.
        For those who have asked why our trade is in trouble, read the above post.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

          Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
          Wow a picture of a ring leaking. Improper installation. Thats terrific. Can't argue crappy install for any sorta product merit.
          And now you have completely proven your ignorance and inability to learn from others.

          Just as you've stated, copper has no warranty. Amazing how much you know and assume that others do not know.

          You shouldn't make those assumptions so publicly. (Already proven completely wrong about the 50 year copper warranty).It makes you look foolish and lose validation in other areas.

          I'm familiar with and/or have worked on potable water systems involving:

          Uponor Wirsbo PEX
          Vanguard/Viega PEX
          Zurn PEX
          Rehau PEX
          Kitec never got any market penetration here.
          Flowguard is trying to make a position.

          And probably some others that have went out of business or I've forgotten about.

          Yes, I know about Cross Linking %, dezincafication, EP fittings, Engl, irradiation, peroxide, A, B, C etc. etc. etc.

          But I still assume I have something to learn. You should do the same.

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

            It's not the product that I object to. It's the attitude. My company installs miles and miles of pex for radiant floor heating systems. It gets buried under concrete. It still gets installed straight and the loops are evenly spaced. Why? because we have attitude. A couple years back, I questioned one of my journeymen on some crooked copper piping that he had installed on a water heater, in a crawlspace. His reply was " can't see it from my house " He's working for another company now. Attitude
            The trade is a profession. Pride and skill are EVERYTHING. without them we are just a bunch of hacks.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

              I completely understand the pride taken in a copper job. Can't speak about galv cause, thank god, have never had to do it.

              But if that is all that is holding the old plumbers back from moving into the new decade, I am crying inside. Holding onto a old dated system, because they can say it took them this amount of time, and dam it looks good. Kinda seems like taking more time to do the same job. Properly installed, both systems are ok. But several factors point out how copper is just old...dated...

              I talk to my customers every day. They ask for my advice on what to install. I tell them I can spend 4 hours doing this job in copper and it will cost XX. Or, I can do it in wirsbo for X, and alot shorter install time. Drawbacks? Honestly, I can not name any.

              I guess if you are getting paid by the hour, and milking the clock, then ya copper is GREAT!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                I strongly advocate for use of copper , the reasons have all been discussed.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                  Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                  But I still assume I have something to learn. You should do the same.

                  J.C.

                  In this trade, if you reach a point where you think you can't learn anymore, it's time to find a different line of work. Changes happen daily. New ideas, new products, rehashes of old ideas, This is a living trade, it has a personality and it changes. You do have to change with it, and learn as you go. But as soon as you lose the pride you can take at the end of a job, you'll find it won't take long after that until you start hating your career choice. In my opinion thats part of why pex is resisted so forcefully, Its hard to look at big loops of pipe and think "good job"
                  No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                    Sharkbites go on faster than crimp fittings.


                    but Honestly, if you're Completely right, and copper is an outdated system, and theres no use for it, then just sit back and relax, it will go away in a few years, they won't produce what doesn't sell.

                    Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
                    I completely understand the pride taken in a copper job. Can't speak about galv cause, thank god, have never had to do it.

                    But if that is all that is holding the old plumbers back from moving into the new decade, I am crying inside. Holding onto a old dated system, because they can say it took them this amount of time, and dam it looks good. Kinda seems like taking more time to do the same job. Properly installed, both systems are ok. But several factors point out how copper is just old...dated...

                    I talk to my customers every day. They ask for my advice on what to install. I tell them I can spend 4 hours doing this job in copper and it will cost XX. Or, I can do it in wirsbo for X, and alot shorter install time. Drawbacks? Honestly, I can not name any.

                    I guess if you are getting paid by the hour, and milking the clock, then ya copper is GREAT!
                    No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                      Whether it is copper, galvanize, CPVC, Polybutylene or PEX, there is not a material made which I have not seen fail including Wirsbo and RTI (both Uponor products). I do not have a problem with installing PEX, I do have a problem with guys who do not care what the job looks like. The same goes for any material installed by any trade. I use to tell my guys when the wall gets open in 20-years, our installation will be our signature. You can train a laborer in a half hour to make it work that does not make it right.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                        How well did PVC go over with the plumbers when it was new? Best guess would be that it was met with equal resistance. And pvc is obviously trash. Doesn't take me near as long to install.

                        Pex looks just as good, and while I was wrong about the warranty, copper just isn't worth it in todays market. Sure I could start installing it every day, but then my labor charges are going to go through the roof. Not to mention jobs would be backing up, thus resulting in lost business. But ya, copper looks good. And am dang proud it takes me longer to install it. Seriously, that is the only argument I am getting. Pretty weak.

                        Propress is nice, but with the cost of fittings, sorta a emergency only option

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          For those who have asked why our trade is in trouble, read the above post.

                          Mark
                          Tell me about it,
                          Plumbdog would puke if he saw a particular subterrainian apartment job that was just completed a few months ago.

                          Misaligned bands,crooked pipes,all thread like wet noodles...Sad.
                          No self respect...
                          I honestly wonder if the guy showers.
                          Oh,Wait....He's a poser of course he does.
                          He LOOKS good only his plumbing looks like $H!t.

                          In all honesty I don't think I will make it to my grave without having to own a couple pex tools.

                          Why don't they make the stuff correctly?
                          The 1/2" fittings have an inside dia. of 3/8.

                          Code has requirements of pipe size main and branch minimum.
                          you would have to run 5 lines to 1 bath or a 1" on cold.

                          How are you sizing?

                          What are the inspectors using in enforcement?

                          A.D.D. wildfire alert,gotta get meds.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                            for enforcement they aren't requiring upsizing, I upsize my installs if I bid them, but thats personal preference.
                            I also only feed 1 fixture witha half inch line, I use 2 1/2 tees per house, and thats at the dishwasher supply, and the roman tub spout.
                            No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                              Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
                              How well did PVC go over with the plumbers when it was new? Best guess would be that it was met with equal resistance. And pvc is obviously trash. Doesn't take me near as long to install.

                              Pex looks just as good, and while I was wrong about the warranty, copper just isn't worth it in todays market. Sure I could start installing it every day, but then my labor charges are going to go through the roof. Not to mention jobs would be backing up, thus resulting in lost business. But ya, copper looks good. And am dang proud it takes me longer to install it. Seriously, that is the only argument I am getting. Pretty weak.

                              Propress is nice, but with the cost of fittings, sorta a emergency only option
                              So how much is a plumber worth when I can teach my twelve year old niece how to do his job in a half hour.
                              $8.00-$10.00.

                              I don't know anything about the stuff.Don't want to.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                                Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
                                How well did PVC go over with the plumbers when it was new? Best guess would be that it was met with equal resistance. And pvc is obviously trash. Doesn't take me near as long to install.

                                Pex looks just as good, and while I was wrong about the warranty, copper just isn't worth it in todays market. Sure I could start installing it every day, but then my labor charges are going to go through the roof. Not to mention jobs would be backing up, thus resulting in lost business. But ya, copper looks good. And am dang proud it takes me longer to install it. Seriously, that is the only argument I am getting. Pretty weak.

                                Propress is nice, but with the cost of fittings, sorta a emergency only option
                                I sincerely hope that this has all been a joke. If so, pretty damn good one, kudo's. If not, you typify everything that is wrong with the trade and tradesmen today. You sir have earned the esteemed title of HACK.
                                sigpic

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X