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Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

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  • #31
    Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

    Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
    Tell me about it,
    Plumbdog would puke if he saw a particular subterrainian apartment job that was just completed a few months ago.

    Misaligned bands,crooked pipes,all thread like wet noodles...Sad.
    No self respect...
    I honestly wonder if the guy showers.
    Oh,Wait....He's a poser of course he does.
    He LOOKS good only his plumbing looks like $H!t.

    In all honesty I don't think I will make it to my grave without having to own a couple pex tools.

    Why don't they make the stuff correctly?
    The 1/2" fittings have an inside dia. of 3/8.

    Code has requirements of pipe size main and branch minimum.
    you would have to run 5 lines to 1 bath or a 1" on cold.

    How are you sizing?

    What are the inspectors using in enforcement?

    A.D.D. wildfire alert,gotta get meds.
    Different mfg. have books for their install. Like the Uponor "Logic" install book.

    Many plumbing codes did not change the distribution sizing when the water conservation act was introduced involving 1.6 toilets (Good luck with your 1.28. Here come the jetter man!) lower flow shower heads & faucets.

    While PEX and poly systems are incorrect by code for internal dimensions and insert fittings, it's not too difficult to adequately size most installs.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

      There is more money to be made installing pex. That is the bottom line. You can install more plumbing in less time. Cheaper jobs, with just the same level of craftsmanship. You are letting money pass by you. That's cool, other companies don't mind soaking it up. Finals are still killer, and inspections are still passing. But hey, stick with that old mentality. Younger guys are getting rich, faster than you are getting by.

      And the installs while not on 90 degree angles, still look decent! They do sell 90s, and you can straighten the pipe out....

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

        Tell us just how rich are ya young fella? Phone ringing off the hook is it? How many trucks you got on the road? How many employees? And all because you install pex? You are ignorant at best and an idiot at worst. You can't make one dime more installing pex than you can installing copper or anything else for that matter. A competent, experienced plumber can install copper in just a few more hours than pex takes, providing you are not "hacking" the pex in. Material cost is higher than pex, but on a whole house the difference is negligable. So where's the savings boy..eee.
        You like it because it takes zero skill to install it. You can throw away your tape measure and level and get out the hammer. Hey, since it's so much cheaper to buy and install, why pay journeymen anymore than seven bucks an hour? None of it makes sense. It's all dumbass economics. Best of all though is that in one short thread you have revealed to everyone here, professionals and non professionals alike, just exactly what they can expect when you show up on the job.
        sigpic

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        • #34
          Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
          So how much is a plumber worth when I can teach my twelve year old niece how to do his job in a half hour.
          $8.00-$10.00.

          I don't know anything about the stuff.Don't want to.
          Wow I guess the meds have not kicked in yet. There is a place for PEX but I do have a problem with the idea it does not matter what your work looks like. Some material failures are in workmanship but others are because the plumber installs materials which are not compatible with the environment they are installed in.

          My primary residence was plumbed in soft copper back in 1968 and I re-plumbed it in hard copper in 1988 because soft copper is not compatible will the well water in our valley. My secondary home was plumbed in PEX in 2004 and needed to be re-plumbed when I bought the home in 2008 because of dezincification. In both cases environment compatibility was the issue.

          Mark
          Last edited by ToUtahNow; 08-20-2009, 10:30 PM.
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

            Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
            There is more money to be made installing pex. That is the bottom line. You can install more plumbing in less time. Cheaper jobs, with just the same level of craftsmanship. You are letting money pass by you. That's cool, other companies don't mind soaking it up. Finals are still killer, and inspections are still passing. But hey, stick with that old mentality. Younger guys are getting rich, faster than you are getting by.

            And the installs while not on 90 degree angles, still look decent! They do sell 90s, and you can straighten the pipe out....
            I'm finding the younger guys are more in competition with themselves being better bull$hitters than plumbers.

            More talk + less work = More Money
            Money for nothing

            So if the material costs less and takes less skill how are you making more money.
            Oh I get it.Customer has no clue....Yet.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              Tell us just how rich are ya young fella? Phone ringing off the hook is it? How many trucks you got on the road? How many employees? And all because you install pex? You are ignorant at best and an idiot at worst. You can't make one dime more installing pex than you can installing copper or anything else for that matter. A competent, experienced plumber can install copper in just a few more hours than pex takes, providing you are not "hacking" the pex in. Material cost is higher than pex, but on a whole house the difference is negligable. So where's the savings boy..eee.
              You like it because it takes zero skill to install it. You can throw away your tape measure and level and get out the hammer. Hey, since it's so much cheaper to buy and install, why pay journeymen anymore than seven bucks an hour? None of it makes sense. It's all dumbass economics. Best of all though is that in one short thread you have revealed to everyone here, professionals and non professionals alike, just exactly what they can expect when you show up on the job.
              Aww whats wrong old school? Tired of eating pbj sandwhiches? Old plumbers like you phase out, and are worthless when you get older.

              Installing pex is generally easier than copper, but that's not the point. It is FASTER and CHEAPER. Copper is not hard to install. Sorry to burst your bubble. If you think it is, then it is a good thing you are a plumber, because if you find that hard, god forbid you actually do anything that requires you to think. It is all "easy" and can be taught to anyone. Doing it right is easier than doing it wrong. But, hey if you feel like it takes sooo much skill, then thank you for your input on why you can't adapt. Seriously, please tell me you think it is -hard- to run copper. PLEASE tell me you are joking.

              I do not run a company. I do and don't, but not the point. If I was hiring, had a old crusty plumber like you interviewing for a job, while i would appreciate your craftsmanship, in the end, if you can't or won't adapt, you would probably get filed with the other plumbers that plumb in a box.

              As far as getting rich, from a business standpoint. Copper would be out 2 years ago. Nothing like halving the material costs, and labor sink as well.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                Goosey, the way people do the little things is the way they often do alot of things.

                You've proven your character.

                J.C.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                  Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                  Goosey, the way people do the little things is the way they often do alot of things.

                  You've proven your character.

                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                    Regardless of my personal installation habits, my or your age. How I type, or what you spell wrong. Fact still remains. Copper is old and dated, and other than attacking my personal character, still have yet to find anything wrong with pex. Other than a leaky ring. Grats on getting off topic.

                    So thank you for derailing the thread, but still the question stands.
                    Why are you installing a system that is old, and more expensive to install, and takes more time. The only defense is by attacking the person posing the question. This is the only defense you old plumbers have. Scared of change or something, idk

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                      Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
                      Aww whats wrong old school? Tired of eating pbj sandwhiches? Old plumbers like you phase out, and are worthless when you get older.

                      Installing pex is generally easier than copper, but that's not the point. It is FASTER and CHEAPER. Copper is not hard to install. Sorry to burst your bubble. If you think it is, then it is a good thing you are a plumber, because if you find that hard, god forbid you actually do anything that requires you to think. It is all "easy" and can be taught to anyone. Doing it right is easier than doing it wrong. But, hey if you feel like it takes sooo much skill, then thank you for your input on why you can't adapt. Seriously, please tell me you think it is -hard- to run copper. PLEASE tell me you are joking.

                      I do not run a company. I do and don't, but not the point. If I was hiring, had a old crusty plumber like you interviewing for a job, while i would appreciate your craftsmanship, in the end, if you can't or won't adapt, you would probably get filed with the other plumbers that plumb in a box.

                      As far as getting rich, from a business standpoint. Copper would be out 2 years ago. Nothing like halving the material costs, and labor sink as well.
                      I'm curious how you can berate a guy who says his company runs "miles and miles" of PEX? You can try and run down the old schoolers all you want but one thing they have that you don't have is a proven track record. I guess we will have to wait until you get a little older to see if you really make it.

                      Good luck-Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                        Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
                        Regardless of my personal installation habits, my or your age. How I type, or what you spell wrong. Fact still remains. Copper is old and dated, and other than attacking my personal character, still have yet to find anything wrong with pex. Other than a leaky ring. Grats on getting off topic.

                        So thank you for derailing the thread, but still the question stands.
                        Why are you installing a system that is old, and more expensive to install, and takes more time. The only defense is by attacking the person posing the question. This is the only defense you old plumbers have. Scared of change or something, idk
                        I'm not sure if you're character has been "attacked". Or maybe "attacked" without provocation. Your character, work, material & products you choose to use, and installation are all intertwined and cannot be separated. If there are weaknesses in any, then there is weakness within the total process and results. Can anyone feel me gettin' my Zen on?

                        You once again make an assumption that only old plumbers are hanging on to copper with white knuckles and refusing to accept anything else. It is ignorant to assume this. Many older plumbers embrace newer technologies. And many YOUNGER plumbers value older methods, embrace them, and even prefer them. Both can be profitable. This is what you need to learn.

                        Copper can be more time consuming.

                        It has a very low % of animals damaging it vs. other methods.

                        Many homeowner prefer copper. They like the look for their own reasons.

                        So if you're all PEX or just push PEX, then you have the potential to lose that job.

                        Copper has the best warranty. 50 YEARS.

                        SHOW ME THE 50 YEAR PEX WARRANTY FROM ANY BRAND.

                        Dependant upon water chemistry, copper has a proven track record of 50 years. Can you show me the multiple houses with 50 year old PEX? You can include Europe if you want. I might learn something too. No assumptions like some make.

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                          Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
                          Regardless of my personal installation habits, my or your age. How I type, or what you spell wrong. Fact still remains. Copper is old and dated, and other than attacking my personal character, still have yet to find anything wrong with pex. Other than a leaky ring. Grats on getting off topic.

                          So thank you for derailing the thread, but still the question stands.
                          Why are you installing a system that is old, and more expensive to install, and takes more time. The only defense is by attacking the person posing the question. This is the only defense you old plumbers have. Scared of change or something, idk
                          PEX is limited quite a bit as to where it can be installed so the idea that copper is out dated is being short sighted. I also notice you claim to be a service plumber so I am not really sure where your skills are but I'm guessing they are not in new work. A lot of the guys here are running pipe sizes which do not exist in PEX so what are they suppose to use if not copper? If you are plumbing a high-rise these days the piping most likely will be pro-press for 1 1/4" and larger and solder for 1" and smaller. There is a reason the pay for guys doing new work in high-rises dwarf the pay made by new kids doing service work and it has to do with ability.

                          Mark
                          Last edited by ToUtahNow; 08-20-2009, 11:03 PM.
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                            Isn't it amazing how some of these young guys seem to think that my age somehow means that I don't keep up with the times.

                            Let me educate you a little bit, young man, because for the past few years that is now what I do. I have been in business for better than 30 years now, successfully I might add. We have 13 employees and over 10,000 customers. My brother has run the company for the past 5 years, allowing me to teach plumbing and HVAC to not only high school students but also to 1st and 3rd plumbing apprentices along with plumbers license re certification classes. I am more than half way through my bachelors degree in plumbing engineering. I have been a past member of the state plumbing board and plumbing code review board. I hold 4 Master plumbing licenses in as many states. I have been around a while. I have seen new products come and go. Some good, some bad. I have seen as many guys like you come and go also. So yes, I am an "old timer" I earned it and I'm proud of it. It is and has always been my job to keep up with trends in the industry. Unlike you however, I am wary enough to not be taken in by every fast, easy product that hits the shelves. As I said in a earlier post. We use miles and miles of pex. It is a product like any other. Has good points and bad. It is not, as you seem to think, the second coming of Christ.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                              Originally posted by EasyEman View Post
                              I agree but this one has been discussed quite a bit so you may not get much activity. Then again you might get hammered by the copper guys, or the Viega guys.

                              The galvanized guys probably don't have computers.
                              LOL

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Wirsbo vs ANY water system.

                                Originally posted by Macgoose View Post
                                Wirsbo looks fine. I have never seen a crooked pipe affect anything of the plumbing system other than the looks.

                                Regardless, how it looks, it still works. Was the point. But hey, choose a pipe for how it LOOKS. I bet they can paint it pink for you to if ya want.

                                That is why the companies that swear by copper and cuss pex, are losing jobs to companies that install both. You can't compete with prices, and will lose bids. True story.
                                Don't you take pride in your work? Its that kind of thinking that is dumbing down the trade. Do it faster, do it cheaper, and at what cost....quality. Copper is proven over the years, Wirsbo is not. Just how much experience do you have sweating copper in all of your 27 years? I've got $hit in my refridgerator older than you (I think I need to clean it out). If you spent any time on this forum, you would know that these guys take pride in what they do, and use nothing but quality products in all their work. I'll bet you install Glacier Bay products because they are cheap. Sorry, I'll pass on the plastic pipe and continue to use what I know will work for many years, and I'll make it look good, even if its in a wall.
                                The Other Rick

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