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  • #16
    Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

    Got nothing to do with change. Hell, I've changed wives three times, I like change, It's lawyers and lawsuits that I hate.

    Now if you will excuse me I have a lead joint to pour on a toilet flange
    sigpic

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    • #17
      Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

      When you hear of coat hangers rubbing the covering off and causing gas leaks

      When you hear of dogs chewing on this piping and putting holes in it while the customer is away at work

      When you hear of lightning strikes that blow thin holes in this pipe

      When you see everyone and their brother running gas line because the pipe and fittings are so easy to install

      When you hear of the constant problems with brand new fittings constantly leaking and bottoming out before tightening to the pipe

      When you see people stapling this piping under decks to run to pool heaters that would of otherwise had to call a plumber to properly run black iron

      When you see how easy someone can shoot a nail and wood and watch this piping over time and vibration rub a hole in it

      When you see even the licensed plumber not understand that you cannot use dish detergent to test this product for leaks, and does it anyway which slowly disetegrates the already rail thin corrugated stainless piping

      When you see a house full of this stuff where you still have to run black iron at the fixtures itself

      When you see too often how easy the product has made for anyone to come off a drip leg serving another gas supplied fixture and connect to another, without consideration to BTU load

      When you know that this is just another nail in the Fing coffin of how much easier this trade is becoming...


      don't knock when our wage earning in this field is comparable to every other trade in the construction industry. At one time this profession was elite,

      Now it's a side job for chuck and pete. If you want easy and you embrace easy, we have to understand that it's par for the course when your ability to plumb a house is making the same dime as the roofer or the siding guy, the painter or the carpet layer.

      It's coming, count on it. What makes you think they won't have sharkbite connectors for gas line some day?


      Now your 75 year old grandma with chronic diarrhea can connect her new stove she bought at walmart. Think about that for a minute henry.



      I got a job tomorrow I'm doing that's coming in at a perfect time to this thread. When you see the video and the images of this cluster**** of a gas line install, knowing a licensed plumber did it before randy handyman did...we all wear this shame for just being a part of the equation.
      Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 10-13-2009, 08:24 PM.
      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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      • #18
        Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

        Dunbar, I am comforted in the thought that there are at least two of us out there that are of common thought on the subject of cheap and easy. I have been preaching to deaf ears for years now and apparently getting nowhere.

        The thank you tab is not near enough to express my gratitude for your post.
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        • #19
          Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

          Dunbar, you the man ! You said it better than I ever could. When you see this stuff, including Sharkbites,and anything the average homeowner or handyman can easily do with very little knowledge of what they're doing a bell should go off. Not only is it wrong it's dangerous. And yes one day people will wake up and say what happened to my trade ?

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          • #20
            Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            Dunbar, I am comforted in the thought that there are at least two of us out there that are of common thought on the subject of cheap and easy. I have been preaching to deaf ears for years now and apparently getting nowhere.

            The thank you tab is not near enough to express my gratitude for your post.
            Okay, that's just creepy.
            (The Low Spark of Steel-Toed Boys)

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            • #21
              Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

              Originally posted by kap View Post
              Dunbar, you the man ! You said it better than I ever could. When you see this stuff, including Sharkbites,and anything the average homeowner or handyman can easily do with very little knowledge of what they're doing a bell should go off. Not only is it wrong it's dangerous. And yes one day people will wake up and say what happened to my trade ?
              Kap, Pex and sharkbites. Just keep an eye on the backflow news ( www.watts.com ) and you will see ever increasing numbers of horror stories as Joe homeowner decides that he can do it 1 2 3
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

                Thanks NHMaster, I was thinking of throwing Pex in there with the rest of the quick fixes but I've seen some really nice radiant heating systems put in by good tradesmen and Geeezzz Pex is really tuff stuff, It can't take a nail or anything like that but I've seen it snaked in old work jobs that would be very difficult to run pipe thru. Haven't seen Gas run thru Pex yet but I bet it's out there. The problem with these flexible pipes is that they offer very little protection from someone that dosent know it's there I.E. concealed work or something chewing on it. Pinholes from lightning in Wardflex and others are rare but the fact that it happens at all should raise a red flag.
                Maybe I'm just getting too old....

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                • #23
                  Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

                  have we forgot that csst is only available to licensed and certified installers.

                  i made a huge stink when i saw it being sold to an apparent homeowner at my supply house 6 months ago.

                  the person who was selling it at the wholesale house is no longer working there

                  i doubt that the manufacturer wants to risk their product being sold and installed by unlicensed people.

                  it took them too many years to get approval in california to risk being banned.

                  i have yet to see it being sold at any retail outlets. it's up to us and the supply house to enforce the laws.

                  i know that 1 of my supply houses will not rent a hdpe pipe fusion machine without a seeing your license. both plumbing and certification for hdpe.

                  we hear of house being flooded almost everyday. look at all the cleanup/ restoration companies that are out there.

                  how often do we hear about houses blowing up because of a gas leak?

                  i know there are more water damage claims for an insurance company than any other claim out there.

                  i doubt all the worries some are worried about are legit at this point. if they are, it would no longer be approved in our state.

                  rick.
                  phoebe it is

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                  • #24
                    Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

                    both Home depot and Lowes sell 1/2 and 3/4 inch Trac pipe here. By law supply houses can not refuse to sell any product to a homeowner unless it is a product that requires a state or federal license to handle like refrigerant. The big supply house out here F.W. Webb used to advertise wholesale or no sale until they got sued by a home owner. Now the sell to anyone
                    Last edited by NHMaster3015; 10-14-2009, 05:59 AM.
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                    • #25
                      Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

                      There are several places here that will sell to anyone. I got a call a couple of years ago, hook up gas to stove. I get to the job, and this huge dog is in the yard, chewing on a piece of csst, like a bone!!!!!

                      HO got the stuff. Was cutting it with a hacksaw. Then he wanted a free lesson how to install it.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

                        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                        So far have only used gas tight. Are the couplings interchangeable? have a gas tite card.inspectors accept that with ward flex? Tanks tool
                        What started this thread. I was having lunch with some Buds,Kinda open conversation at the counter. Guy I never met started talking about his Son's old appt. house
                        had some leaks found By the pg+e sniffer subs. Want's to use csst ,and By passold black iron. By the way He's a REALATOR! I passed this along to a plumber friend of mine.
                        Hate to loose our beautiful home in Marin ! Thank's again N.H. Master. Some times You don't listen to that little voice in Your Tummy! Need to get hit over the head. I will use this product SELECTIVELY ,in what I deam a safe atmosphere.
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                        • #27
                          www.menards.com

                          will sell tru-flex to anyone. i use trac-pipe. it was pricey for csst. you have to buy it in stock lenghts. 25', 50' and 100' if i remember. call and ask. breid...........

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                          • #28
                            Re: www.menards.com

                            Originally posted by breid1903 View Post
                            will sell tru-flex to anyone. i use trac-pipe. it was pricey for csst. you have to buy it in stock lenghts. 25', 50' and 100' if i remember. call and ask. breid...........
                            Never, ever would the majority find this value of ease with black iron. It takes work (black iron) takes time, takes energy and it seems that is what this world is all about; avoiding.

                            What is the hurry? We managed for years, decades with products that held up STILL to this day, and many years to come.

                            I have partial rolls and the fittings for Gas-tite in 1/2"...it came with a day buy I got one time and it sits collecting dust till I strip the plastic off of it, or swap it for something. I'm concerned if I sell it on ebay that no one will have the credentials to install it. I'm most likely right.
                            Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 10-14-2009, 08:14 PM.
                            Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                            • #29
                              Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

                              I'll never understand the argument that, "that's the way we've always done it so everything else is garbage". That's all fine and good, nothing wrong with the old ways if that's what you like but the fact is everything changes.

                              Doesn't matter what industry you're in, change happens. It's called Progress!
                              I try keeping up with the times, go to continued education classes when I can, read all I can about new products, etc. I enjoy learning new things about our profession.

                              I don't mind change. I love the propress, I haven't soldered hardly a fitting in a long time. It's the best thing to ever happen to our profession. Then we have pex, I use the Viega pureflow for almost everything. Viega makes both the propress fittings and the pureflow, it's like a match made in heaven! No soldered transition fittings!

                              Some folks like to preach about how it's ruining our profession, about how it's all going to fall apart, about how cheap it all is. I don't have a problem with that, it doesn't seem to be working for them. LOL

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                              • #30
                                Re: Ward flex or gas tight?

                                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                                both Home depot and Lowes sell 1/2 and 3/4 inch Trac pipe here. By law supply houses can not refuse to sell any product to a homeowner unless it is a product that requires a state or federal license to handle like refrigerant. The big supply house out here F.W. Webb used to advertise wholesale or no sale until they got sued by a home owner. Now the sell to anyone




                                The one in Portsmouth NH has ward flex and trac pipe!!!!
                                Oh and I know of two supply houses in our area that will sell trac pipe and wardflex to ANYONE!!!

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