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  • #16
    Re: tile showers

    Your knee bumped tile and it fell out?? Must be a swell piece of real estate . $60,000 ?
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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    • #17
      Re: tile showers

      Wet set ceramic tile can not be beat. We remodel homes that are 60+ years old and no water damage anywhere! Lead pan and all. Takes 2 days and 2 dumpsters to demo one of these. Our tile guy still does it to this day on high end stuff. Wonderboard and hardiboard will never last that long!

      I use a solid brass strainer from Wolverine Brass, and PVC liner. 4 times the price of a plastic strainer. Who cares? No leaks ever and will be there forever, or untill the customer gets tired of the tile. .

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      • #18
        Re: tile showers

        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
        Let's hear what You recommend to replace tile,with all the details.
        I don't have any good ideas. But I do call them like I see them. I still set toilets with wax rings and that is insulting to our trade that we haven't improved on that.

        I just think it is funny that every tile guy or plumber that sets a liner says the guy before him did not know what they were doing. I don't think that highly of myself to think I am so perfect in my craft. I don't want to see a code change about tile installs. I don't care that much I'm a plumber not a tile guy and I refuse to install liners. So it's not my problem.

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        • #19
          Re: tile showers

          Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
          I just got done sitting in a tub for 5 hours replacing a tub & shower faucet.

          My knee just barely hit the right wall and collapsed 4 tile. The tile at the wall itself for the shower faucet were so loose that any movement was bad.


          Tile is what is. Lots of maintenance that the majority won't do. To really keep tile in good shape you have to keep it clean twice a month that follows the daily use of 2 to 4 people. << That's work, and to clean tile and grout is not easy, especially when you let it get past a certain phase.


          If you let it get to black mold, grout falling out between the tiles, there's no hope for preventing saturation into the product behind the tile.

          I believe this tile was set on regular drywall and nothing else.

          A tile guy himself told me that grout sealer is junk, is this true?

          I seem to think that grout is porous, just like concrete and absorbs water...why would you want to have something that you know over time will have the degredation of constant water exposure to have to redo it?

          If tile work doesn't move or crack, it holds up but damn I haven't seen any that doesn't crack or thin separate over time. Maybe some homes in the 30's but I've been in million dollar homes down to homes the cost of a new car and they seem to all have patterns that continually follow their own in breakdown.

          Tile on concrete, thick concrete is the best application I've ever seen, or wire lathe when they did those old homes with 2" thick concrete walls for the showers, cast iron tubs.

          But I blame the failure of the product moreso on maintenance more than anything, and expecting people to put that much effort into tile to keep it "right" is almost unreasonable.


          When it comes to tiled showers, I always push the customer into using a pan, always. I can guarantee the connection to be leakproof over a tiled one.


          I cannot begin to even count how many times in my career I've been called out to do a plumbing repair that only turned out to be a tiled enclosure that was leaking. Can't knock it too much; it's lining my pockets with income. $$$

          Everything that was tile in my home was switched to fiberglass units with domes...no leaking to speak of but that doesn't mean it can't. Fiberglass units not bedded in mortar will spider crack and leak just as bad or worse than tile, especially if glazing over pock marks eventually show up in the finish.

          I cannot stand that hollow sound of fiberglass unit, always speaks of cheap. I now run naked in the streets during days of rain to maintain my personal hygiene, to hell with indoor plumbing!
          I have wondered if up keep was an issue? I know I have showed up with my tube of caulk thinking were do I start. since I don't know where it's leaking in the 1st place.

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          • #20
            Re: tile showers

            My personal opinion is that upkeep is imperative and no one does it. I demoed a 40 year old tub with tile surround for a friend. Even though the tile was set on sheetrock, the HO had never maintained the caulk in the corners and that was where the water damage came from. My old house, the tile guy grouted the corners which with normal seasonal contraction/expansion hairlined. (install was on an outside corner of the house) I caught that one, and dug out some of the grout and siliconed the corners and never had any problems with it.

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            • #21
              Re: tile showers

              Originally posted by JTROANOKE View Post
              My personal opinion is that upkeep is imperative and no one does it. I demoed a 40 year old tub with tile surround for a friend. Even though the tile was set on sheetrock, the HO had never maintained the caulk in the corners and that was where the water damage came from. My old house, the tile guy grouted the corners which with normal seasonal contraction/expansion hairlined. (install was on an outside corner of the house) I caught that one, and dug out some of the grout and siliconed the corners and never had any problems with it.
              You may never know until you demo the shower thats another funny thing everybody thinks they did a great job. The proof is when you remodel and then you see what you have.

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              • #22
                Re: tile showers

                Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                Your knee bumped tile and it fell out?? Must be a swell piece of real estate . $60,000 ?

                Around the $130-$150,000.00 range and if the house was lifted and dropped in your town, double that.


                Cost of home doesn't dictate the damage. In Triple Crown, a city near where I live, elaborate homes with full tile are just as prone to the issue as any other.


                Here's my master bath, 80% tile that was done 5 years ago. Tile made that bathroom the way it is, elegant. But a woodworker could of wood paneled the walls at 45's and really lustered the room out as well. To each their own in taste.

                Now, I did all the prep work. I used concrete board everywhere there is tile that you see. The tile guys said it wasn't necessary but I know a solid base means everything to support tile.

                The tile looks great, but it's hard to keep clean and the grout has darkened where you walk in the bathroom ( to the urinal, the toilet, the built in sink and the drop-in shower)

                In numerous spots the grout has cracked and even some areas the tile has cracked, hairline. They used silicone in places they should but movement of the planes of tile still caused the grout to crack and pull out.

                The bathroom is beautiful but my thinking on that darkened grout is it is going to have to be bleached.

                Tile is cold too for those with arthritis. It looks great, solid, I've even hosed it down before with a hose to clean it (did it only once) but I don't think linoleum would of looked good in there. That fake wood might of worked but constant moisture destroys it.

                Most older homes have tiled bathrooms in my area and against the newer construction the older ones by far were built better in relation to thickness...but if someone never kept it clean, destroyed.
                Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 10-22-2009, 08:31 PM.
                Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                • #23
                  Re: tile showers

                  Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
                  Around the $130-$150,000.00 range and if the house was lifted and dropped in your town, double that.


                  Cost of home doesn't dictate the damage. In Triple Crown, a city near where I live, elaborate homes with full tile are just as prone to the issue as any other.


                  Here's my master bath, 80% tile that was done 5 years ago. Tile made that bathroom the way it is, elegant. But a woodworker could of wood paneled the walls at 45's and really lustered the room out as well. To each their own in taste.

                  Now, I did all the prep work. I used concrete board everywhere there is tile that you see. The tile guys said it wasn't necessary but I know a solid base means everything to support tile.

                  The tile looks great, but it's hard to keep clean and the grout has darkened where you walk in the bathroom ( to the urinal, the toilet, the built in sink and the drop-in shower)

                  In numerous spots the grout has cracked and even some areas the tile has cracked, hairline. They used silicone in places they should but movement of the planes of tile still caused the grout to crack and pull out.

                  The bathroom is beautiful but my thinking on that darkened grout is it is going to have to be bleached.

                  Tile is cold too for those with arthritis. It looks great, solid, I've even hosed it down before with a hose to clean it (did it only once) but I don't think linoleum would of looked good in there. That fake wood might of worked but constant moisture destroys it.

                  Most older homes have tiled bathrooms in my area and against the newer construction the older ones by far were built better in relation to thickness...but if someone never kept it clean, destroyed.

                  I think tile looks awesome. makes a house especially a bathroom look great.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: tile showers

                    Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                    I think tile looks awesome. makes a house especially a bathroom look great.

                    If I showed you what it looks like now, you'd know how much work it takes to keep it looking nice. The floor is my problem at this point. I have a carpeted rug right at the foot of the shower and the grout is darker outside the edge of the rug.

                    What I really need is a english maid that when she bends over has no undies. Then, it will be clean.
                    Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                    • #25
                      Re: tile showers

                      wouldn't it be fun with a world of glass shower units? One big motel sex
                      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                      • #26
                        Re: tile showers

                        Originally posted by cactusman View Post
                        Time VS money! That's the answer.

                        with all these so called professional DYI TV shows and sadly even the reputable ones you watch them do a bathroom in 22 minutes [minus commercials]

                        So the homeowner wants it that way too! In fact locally there is a hack advertising a bathtub remodel in ONE DAY! In my opinion it's not possible as you need to wait 24 hours before grout!!!

                        I had a bad experience with a quality product.....
                        I purchased a metal shake shingle roof system. I researched it, I spoke with the manufacturer and was recommended an installer.

                        Life was good until the third day when I was unable to supervise...He had a truck load of illegal aliens, Mexican day laborers, armed with hammers and nails!!!!!
                        When I returned the job was done, the registrar of contractors here did have them come back and fix some of the crap work. He told me it's a great product but a crappy install!!!

                        I had no recourse as the company folded, changed it's name and started up new across the street from where they were...This happens a lot in AZ!!!!

                        I contacted the manufacturer and he was worthless claiming he's not responsible for the installation etc. when the roof began to fail they then claimed due to an improper installation your warranty of the product is void!

                        My point of this rant is.....tile products come in all varieties from awful to wow!. Not all tiles are designed or meant for shower areas. I doubt any of the water failures you describe are the fault of the specific tile if selected and installed properly.

                        Think about cheap/poor preparation of the area. Think about the use of inferior products and then improper installation. Think about the skill level of the laborer installing the grout..is it the correct type for the job? Did he mix it properly? Will he seal it? did he install it correctly?

                        Others have discussed the backing of the tile and again it goes back to the installer.

                        I recently re-plumbed my home and had to tear apart my tub surround. It was a one piece
                        fiberglass surround. And guess what???? YEP! mold and water damage behind it!

                        I ripped it all out did hardiboard, the redgaurd [three coats] the proper adhesive etc.

                        This took a lot of time allowing for drying time.....Now look at the assembly line home construction..within in a hour or two the tile is done! You're gonna have problems down the line.

                        But the bottom line time is Money..people won't pay for quality anymore..they all want the wal-mart special.


                        Cactus Man

                        Hopefully you new state law won't be repealed and it will fix some of that!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: tile showers

                          Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                          Just like wax rings for a toilet I think tile showers are garbage! Tell me most of the tile showers you have seen over the years don't have quite a bit of water damage lurking under the tile. I do think tile showers look awesome. I even wanted to be a tile guy, but the proof is in the water damage. Tile is an inferior product. I don't care how good the pan is put in or how good the tile guy is. I don't think I've seen a remodel that did not have water damage. Then the new tile guy always says look at that water damage,the guy that installed this didn't no what he was doing. O.K. every tile guy was worthless before he showed up and every plumber or tile guy had no idea how to put a pan liner in. Bologna!!! It's all garbage product

                          Look at how this guy installed the pan liner at the front corners of this tile shower. Basically the toilet(to the left in the video) sits in the shower. There is no threshold but that in itself may not be a problem but look at how he did the corners where the threshold would normally be. Thats all jacked up......i bet the tile man ripped that crap out. More tile should have been removed on the walls to allow a straight liner and then roll up the wall.....instead he just bunched it up and cut it short. Thats a butcher job.

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                          • #28
                            Re: tile showers

                            Is this the same guy who did a video about a leaking shower base, and the customer was there in the video as well? If it is, that guy is a straight up weirdo!

                            But what i want to know is...where is the 30" pocket for the toilet?

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                            • #29
                              Re: tile showers

                              This place is eat slap up with code violations in any jurisdiction. And what magic way will that pan not leak?

                              I myself don't think I do the best job at the threshold corners where the rollover third dimension comes into play. But I do make sure it's waterproof with a good test.


                              J.C.

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                              • #30
                                Re: tile showers

                                What is that, crap while you shower set up? Open the door and you are in the frickin shower!

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