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  • tile showers

    Just like wax rings for a toilet I think tile showers are garbage! Tell me most of the tile showers you have seen over the years don't have quite a bit of water damage lurking under the tile. I do think tile showers look awesome. I even wanted to be a tile guy, but the proof is in the water damage. Tile is an inferior product. I don't care how good the pan is put in or how good the tile guy is. I don't think I've seen a remodel that did not have water damage. Then the new tile guy always says look at that water damage,the guy that installed this didn't no what he was doing. O.K. every tile guy was worthless before he showed up and every plumber or tile guy had no idea how to put a pan liner in. Bologna!!! It's all garbage product

  • #2
    Re: tile showers

    I pulled a lead pan a few weeks back that looks great underneath.
    I've never pulled a membrane that didn't need a new subfloor.
    No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: tile showers. Done right they last!

      All I can say is Your work experience is associated with low ball projects. My projects all
      have 40 mil pvc pans and are water tested , and signed off by the inspector,
      We follow this Mans suggestions www.johnbridge.com/showerpan
      Tell John tile showers are crap! Yes they're hackers every where! We don't get involved in low budget work
      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: tile showers. Done right they last!

        Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
        All I can say is Your work experience is associated with low ball projects. My projects all
        have 40 mil pvc pans and are water tested , and signed off by the inspector,
        We follow this Mans suggestions www.johnbridge.com/showerpan
        Tell John tile showers are crap! Yes they're hackers every where! We don't get involved in low budget work
        It's just what I see on remodels. It may be all hack work that I deal with. Let me just stay again. On every tile shower I've had a remodel on there was water damage. We will see in 20 and 30 years if the new tile being installed holds up.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: tile showers. Done right they last!

          Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
          It's just what I see on remodels. It may be all hack work that I deal with. Let me just stay again. On every tile shower I've had a remodel on there was water damage. We will see in 20 and 30 years if the new tile being installed holds up.
          Either a Man has it in His hand and Heart to do well and care,or He doesn't ?

          I believe it starts with good parenting. Yes, I see this garbage every day!
          My Son and I take pride in our work. I had Brian on a roof with Me laying down shingles when He was 7. He's still at My side, and updating Me on New materials,and better practices.
          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: tile showers

            Time VS money! That's the answer.

            with all these so called professional DYI TV shows and sadly even the reputable ones you watch them do a bathroom in 22 minutes [minus commercials]

            So the homeowner wants it that way too! In fact locally there is a hack advertising a bathtub remodel in ONE DAY! In my opinion it's not possible as you need to wait 24 hours before grout!!!

            I had a bad experience with a quality product.....
            I purchased a metal shake shingle roof system. I researched it, I spoke with the manufacturer and was recommended an installer.

            Life was good until the third day when I was unable to supervise...He had a truck load of illegal aliens, Mexican day laborers, armed with hammers and nails!!!!!
            When I returned the job was done, the registrar of contractors here did have them come back and fix some of the crap work. He told me it's a great product but a crappy install!!!

            I had no recourse as the company folded, changed it's name and started up new across the street from where they were...This happens a lot in AZ!!!!

            I contacted the manufacturer and he was worthless claiming he's not responsible for the installation etc. when the roof began to fail they then claimed due to an improper installation your warranty of the product is void!

            My point of this rant is.....tile products come in all varieties from awful to wow!. Not all tiles are designed or meant for shower areas. I doubt any of the water failures you describe are the fault of the specific tile if selected and installed properly.

            Think about cheap/poor preparation of the area. Think about the use of inferior products and then improper installation. Think about the skill level of the laborer installing the grout..is it the correct type for the job? Did he mix it properly? Will he seal it? did he install it correctly?

            Others have discussed the backing of the tile and again it goes back to the installer.

            I recently re-plumbed my home and had to tear apart my tub surround. It was a one piece
            fiberglass surround. And guess what???? YEP! mold and water damage behind it!

            I ripped it all out did hardiboard, the redgaurd [three coats] the proper adhesive etc.

            This took a lot of time allowing for drying time.....Now look at the assembly line home construction..within in a hour or two the tile is done! You're gonna have problems down the line.

            But the bottom line time is Money..people won't pay for quality anymore..they all want the wal-mart special.


            Cactus Man

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: tile showers. Done right they last!

              Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
              All I can say is Your work experience is associated with low ball projects. My projects all
              have 40 mil pvc pans and are water tested , and signed off by the inspector,
              We follow this Mans suggestions www.johnbridge.com/showerpan
              Tell John tile showers are crap! Yes they're hackers every where! We don't get involved in low budget work
              Hey, Tool. The link has expired. Do you have it's contents saved on your computer?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: tile showers

                Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                Just like wax rings for a toilet I think tile showers are garbage! Tell me most of the tile showers you have seen over the years don't have quite a bit of water damage lurking under the tile. I do think tile showers look awesome. I even wanted to be a tile guy, but the proof is in the water damage. Tile is an inferior product. I don't care how good the pan is put in or how good the tile guy is. I don't think I've seen a remodel that did not have water damage. Then the new tile guy always says look at that water damage,the guy that installed this didn't no what he was doing. O.K. every tile guy was worthless before he showed up and every plumber or tile guy had no idea how to put a pan liner in. Bologna!!! It's all garbage product


                We custom make copper shower pans and never had a problem with them.....?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: tile showers

                  Originally posted by BrandonG View Post
                  We custom make copper shower pans and never had a problem with them.....?
                  Maybe, but what about the tile on the walls? The funny thing about this water damage. You never see it until a remodel. then you see the entire sub floor rotted or a good piece of it. Oh well it's just my opinion based on my own expirience. I notice most other plumbers are silent about this topic so I might assume I am the only plumber to see this on a consistent basis.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: tile showers

                    Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                    maybe, but what about the tile on the walls? The funny thing about this water damage. You never see it until a remodel. Then you see the entire sub floor rotted or a good piece of it. Oh well it's just my opinion based on my own expirience. i notice most other plumbers are silent about this topic so i might assume i am the only plumber to see this on a consistent basis.





                    lol

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: tile showers

                      Originally posted by cactusman View Post
                      Time VS money! That's the answer.

                      with all these so called professional DYI TV shows and sadly even the reputable ones you watch them do a bathroom in 22 minutes [minus commercials]

                      So the homeowner wants it that way too! In fact locally there is a hack advertising a bathtub remodel in ONE DAY! In my opinion it's not possible as you need to wait 24 hours before grout!!!

                      I had a bad experience with a quality product.....
                      I purchased a metal shake shingle roof system. I researched it, I spoke with the manufacturer and was recommended an installer.

                      Life was good until the third day when I was unable to supervise...He had a truck load of illegal aliens, Mexican day laborers, armed with hammers and nails!!!!!
                      When I returned the job was done, the registrar of contractors here did have them come back and fix some of the crap work. He told me it's a great product but a crappy install!!!

                      I had no recourse as the company folded, changed it's name and started up new across the street from where they were...This happens a lot in AZ!!!!

                      I contacted the manufacturer and he was worthless claiming he's not responsible for the installation etc. when the roof began to fail they then claimed due to an improper installation your warranty of the product is void!

                      My point of this rant is.....tile products come in all varieties from awful to wow!. Not all tiles are designed or meant for shower areas. I doubt any of the water failures you describe are the fault of the specific tile if selected and installed properly.

                      Think about cheap/poor preparation of the area. Think about the use of inferior products and then improper installation. Think about the skill level of the laborer installing the grout..is it the correct type for the job? Did he mix it properly? Will he seal it? did he install it correctly?

                      Others have discussed the backing of the tile and again it goes back to the installer.

                      I recently re-plumbed my home and had to tear apart my tub surround. It was a one piece
                      fiberglass surround. And guess what???? YEP! mold and water damage behind it!

                      I ripped it all out did hardiboard, the redgaurd [three coats] the proper adhesive etc.

                      This took a lot of time allowing for drying time.....Now look at the assembly line home construction..within in a hour or two the tile is done! You're gonna have problems down the line.

                      But the bottom line time is Money..people won't pay for quality anymore..they all want the wal-mart special.


                      Cactus Man
                      My tile man is a 63 year old craftsman. He does it right. sorry for your pain
                      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: tile showers

                        I talked to a tile guy today that has been sending work my way. I asked him if he ever demode a tile shower without water damage. Poor guy got a blank look on his face then said No. Then he put the blame on incompetent installers of the pan. I laughed and told him my theory.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: tile showers

                          Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
                          I talked to a tile guy today that has been sending work my way. I asked him if he ever demode a tile shower without water damage. Poor guy got a blank look on his face then said No. Then he put the blame on incompetent installers of the pan. I laughed and told him my theory.
                          Let's hear what You recommend to replace tile,with all the details.
                          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: tile showers

                            Seen some leak. Seen some not. Seen more leak than not.

                            That seems to support that they can be installed correctly to not leak but a higher percentage of installers miss the details that make them not leak.

                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: tile showers

                              I just got done sitting in a tub for 5 hours replacing a tub & shower faucet.

                              My knee just barely hit the right wall and collapsed 4 tile. The tile at the wall itself for the shower faucet were so loose that any movement was bad.


                              Tile is what is. Lots of maintenance that the majority won't do. To really keep tile in good shape you have to keep it clean twice a month that follows the daily use of 2 to 4 people. << That's work, and to clean tile and grout is not easy, especially when you let it get past a certain phase.


                              If you let it get to black mold, grout falling out between the tiles, there's no hope for preventing saturation into the product behind the tile.

                              I believe this tile was set on regular drywall and nothing else.

                              A tile guy himself told me that grout sealer is junk, is this true?

                              I seem to think that grout is porous, just like concrete and absorbs water...why would you want to have something that you know over time will have the degredation of constant water exposure to have to redo it?

                              If tile work doesn't move or crack, it holds up but damn I haven't seen any that doesn't crack or thin separate over time. Maybe some homes in the 30's but I've been in million dollar homes down to homes the cost of a new car and they seem to all have patterns that continually follow their own in breakdown.

                              Tile on concrete, thick concrete is the best application I've ever seen, or wire lathe when they did those old homes with 2" thick concrete walls for the showers, cast iron tubs.

                              But I blame the failure of the product moreso on maintenance more than anything, and expecting people to put that much effort into tile to keep it "right" is almost unreasonable.


                              When it comes to tiled showers, I always push the customer into using a pan, always. I can guarantee the connection to be leakproof over a tiled one.


                              I cannot begin to even count how many times in my career I've been called out to do a plumbing repair that only turned out to be a tiled enclosure that was leaking. Can't knock it too much; it's lining my pockets with income. $$$

                              Everything that was tile in my home was switched to fiberglass units with domes...no leaking to speak of but that doesn't mean it can't. Fiberglass units not bedded in mortar will spider crack and leak just as bad or worse than tile, especially if glazing over pock marks eventually show up in the finish.

                              I cannot stand that hollow sound of fiberglass unit, always speaks of cheap. I now run naked in the streets during days of rain to maintain my personal hygiene, to hell with indoor plumbing!
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