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Help a Plumbing Engineer out

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  • #16
    Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

    the propress fittings are heavy enough copper that if someone wants to use them in place of soldered fittings i'd let them.

    Dielectric unions are junk, but a lot of codes/inspectors are going to demand them.
    No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

      What do you guys suggest using as opposed to a dielectric?

      Keep in mind guys... As many problems as you have with an engineer... I have with architects who normally have very little understanding of how a plumbing system works outside of what they might have in their own homes. Some have even asked me if I can make my pipes smaller to fit in tight ceilings!

      Hell, I spend a good 1/4th of my day explaining why a 4" vent won't fit in a 4" stud wall or adding emphasis to the CONS of putting in eemax heaters.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

        Originally posted by Manning Formula View Post
        What do you guys suggest using as opposed to a dielectric?
        Originally posted by Manning Formula View Post

        Keep in mind guys... As many problems as you have with an engineer... I have with architects who normally have very little understanding of how a plumbing system works outside of what they might have in their own homes. Some have even asked me if I can make my pipes smaller to fit in tight ceilings!

        Hell, I spend a good 1/4th of my day explaining why a 4" vent won't fit in a 4" stud wall or adding emphasis to the CONS of putting in eemax heaters.
        I'm gonna' throw this back at you. What do YOU suggest as opposed to a dielectric?

        J.C.

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        • #19
          Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

          I wish I could answer that, but unfortunately my only references are in books, which all prescribe dielectric unions.

          What's wrong with them? Are they leak-prone?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

            Originally posted by Manning Formula View Post
            I wish I could answer that, but unfortunately my only references are in books, which all prescribe dielectric unions.

            What's wrong with them? Are they leak-prone?
            In any "engineering chain" there is ALWAYS a weakest link.

            What's the weakest link in a dielectric union? Would the weakest link in a dielectric union outlast the weakest link in say..... a brass transition when using copper?

            J.C.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

              J.C. is giving you good advise when he says to fab it up to get accurate dimensions. If I may make a suggestion, for general questions on plumbing issues, why not ask one of the old plumbers your firm uses to verify field performance? That guy with 56 years under his belt is probably a walking plumbing encyclopedia. His answers would probably not be so edged with sarcasm as ours have been because he knows you.
              Last edited by Plumbus; 10-24-2009, 05:45 PM.

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              • #22
                Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

                Instead of dielectric unions, use a brass fitting or union. Brass is a code acceptable transition from galvanized to copper. Or use a gal. nipple and a I.P. valve as a transition.

                DE unions corrode and and cause more corrosion than they cure. I have installed heaters with just an adapter screwed into the tappings and seen them ten years later with no corrosion. I have also seen DE unions that were rotting out within a couple of years of installation

                On top of that, the rubber gasket becomes quite nasty after a few years and really shouldn't be in a potable water line.

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                • #23
                  Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

                  The best transition from galvanized to copper is stainless steel. In my area, anyway. The brass eats away the threads of the galvy.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

                    Manning, welcome to the forum.

                    i got into the trade when i was 18 and graduated when i was 24.

                    i'm 44 now and have seen some things, but not as much as my southern counterparts.

                    i've seen some really good ideas, and i've seen soom really dumb ideas.

                    i've also seen some really $h!tty plumbing by so-called journeyman.

                    like any other person doing any other job, their work will only be as good as that person's attention to detail/professionalism.

                    i share the same complaint that many trademen have, engineers/architects need to spend time in the field before recieving their degrees, kinda like us with our certification.

                    Vince

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                    • #25
                      Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

                      the problem we run into is if the isometric is done in a way that will not work in the field we are not allowed to make any changes to the approved drawing. Therefore the job gets delayed until new drawings are submitted and reapproved. You say you come from a plumbing family I would ask thier opinion on how a job should be properly done

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                      • #26
                        Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

                        Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                        Stop trying to cram 10 pounds of crap into a 5 pound box

                        Just because you can draw it with a pencil doesn't mean it will work in the real world.
                        Don't be so quick to blame the Plumbing Engineer for this one. Remember who we work for. Architects. If I had a dime for every time an Architect disregarded my space recommendations, or outright refused to give up his precious "Rentable floor space" I would have retired from all this a long time ago. Additionally, if you work as a consultant for an outside engineering firm (No in house architects) you are often given a very incomplete set of drawings and a ridiculous time frame in which to coordinate with these "Final Plans".
                        One good example: I told the Arch that we needed more ceiling space to install a horizontal drain line above a conference room ceiling due to slope. His response was "It will just have to run flat" He refused to back down and in the end it cost thousands in change orders due to window/ceiling height conflicts etc. Of course the first reaction by the contractor is "Stupid Engineer"
                        Sorry for the rant. Those of us who make every effort to put out a quality design can get frustrated when being blamed for things beyond our control. There is plenty of stupidity to go around in the construction industry. It's not always the "Engineers" fault.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

                          I had a remodel done last year and had a tankless water heater put in. The plumbers had never seen one and even wanted the old tankless heater I was replacing so they could disect it and see how they worked.I also have a plumber friend and I asked him about water softening methods, particularly magnetic water conditioning. He had never heard of it.
                          stainless steel sinks

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

                            Originally posted by Mollie Adele View Post
                            I had a remodel done last year and had a tankless water heater put in. The plumbers had never seen one and even wanted the old tankless heater I was replacing so they could disect it and see how they worked.I also have a plumber friend and I asked him about water softening methods, particularly magnetic water conditioning. He had never heard of it.
                            So how do you yourself interperate the function of the magnetic water conditioners.
                            My partner explained his understanding to me the other day,as he was told as a salesman in the nineties.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

                              Drtyhands
                              Don’t worry, its all scientific. When the flow switch is activated the internal cell phone calls Madam Lulu’s 900 # in Haiti. With the information sent over the phone she can chant curses, and stick pins in voodoo dolls, against whatever elements or compounds in the water that you want removed.
                              Until I get some real data on what these things do, I’m sticking with this explanation.
                              Mike

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Help a Plumbing Engineer out

                                Originally posted by myakka View Post
                                Drtyhands
                                Don’t worry, its all scientific. When the flow switch is activated the internal cell phone calls Madam Lulu’s 900 # in Haiti. With the information sent over the phone she can chant curses, and stick pins in voodoo dolls, against whatever elements or compounds in the water that you want removed.
                                Until I get some real data on what these things do, I’m sticking with this explanation.
                                Mike
                                You guys must've worked under the same regional salesperson.
                                That's exactly how he explained it to me.
                                AMAZING!!!

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