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  • #16
    Re: Let's Get Crazy...

    Originally posted by saysflushable View Post
    Could it be Thermo loss would be that much less? What does insulating pipes cost on a big commercial job cost? Could not having the return lines insulated be a big savings? I really don't know I dought it though.
    Over a 40% savings.

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    • #17
      Re: Let's Get Crazy...

      So what's the maximum feet per second before the return line starts flapping around on the sidewalls clacking/humming away and knocking off patina.

      What is supposed to keep a plastic line taught and off the interior walls of the pipe.

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      • #18
        Re: Let's Get Crazy...

        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
        So what's the maximum feet per second before the return line starts flapping around on the sidewalls clacking/humming away and knocking off patina.

        What is supposed to keep a plastic line taught and off the interior walls of the pipe.


        Good points, just like the rest that have been asked. Somebody get that viega rep on here to answer these questions.


        He's got 5 days to respond...



        Watch how fast I make a friend in the plumbing biz
        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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        • #19
          Re: Let's Get Crazy...

          Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
          Good points, just like the rest that have been asked. Somebody get that viega rep on here to answer these questions.


          He's got 5 days to respond...



          Watch how fast I make a friend in the plumbing biz



          If you have legitimate questions about the system you can call Josh Dimacchia, one of Viega's district managers. I believe he's on the east coast, he could answer your questions regarding the new system. He was instrumental in having the system installed in a new 104 unit Hilton Hotel in Erie Pa. Good luck!
          The Viega Pex, Propress train left the station and is flying down the tracks leaving some folks standing behind holding thier bags wondering what happened!
          Builders are starting to demand these products, it's the future of our profession. Take it or leave it, I'm on the train.

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          • #20
            Re: Let's Get Crazy...

            Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
            We had some heavy hitters from Viega at the Ridgid Roundup but they didn't roll this out?
            They didn't want to be humiliated!
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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            • #21
              Re: Let's Get Crazy...

              Originally posted by DUNBAR View Post
              Good points, just like the rest that have been asked. Somebody get that viega rep on here to answer these questions.


              He's got 5 days to respond...



              Watch how fast I make a friend in the plumbing biz
              Are You armed, dog? ,Lite sleeper?
              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Let's Get Crazy...

                It's amazing how stuff gets approved so fast these days. Don't suppose money has anything to do with it? Or perhaps nobody cares anymore. How is this the future of anything? How is this better than what was before? All it is is faster and cheaper and the end result is the same. Fast and cheap fast and cheap. That's one helluva train your on.
                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Re: Let's Get Crazy...

                  Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                  Are You armed, dog? ,Lite sleeper?

                  Nah, just intrigued how this product fired up so many "considerations" and the best place for a rep is right in this thread where they can answer the questions.


                  That way they will be answered and here for future reference when the subject comes back up. The same exact way ridgid built this site for the sounding board for their product.

                  That's what I want and I'm sure others here want the same. Having to "call" someone instead of putting to print doesn't represent a product from a longevity standpoint.

                  If there wasn't so many similar piping systems failing around this, I wouldn't be after this information.

                  I'm methodical like that.
                  Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                  • #24
                    Re: Let's Get Crazy...

                    http://www.viega.net/cps/rde/xbcr/en...cirulation.pdf
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Let's Get Crazy...

                      Thanks for the link but here's a really good question.

                      And I can always prove I'm thinking:


                      What's the growth of expansion of that pex tubing inside that recirculation system per 10 degree rise?

                      We know that plastic piping grows when it is heated.

                      Stress points on the connections?

                      Where is the chart that explains that rate of growth inside that pipe when it reaches...150 degrees to compensate for thermal loss over 6 floors.

                      I'm mentioning this because for pex installation they instantly require this allowance for expansion/contraction considerations. If installation inside a pipe, there's going to be a restrictive path.

                      I'm chock full of what ifs this morning.
                      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                      • #26
                        Re: Let's Get Crazy...

                        The expansion and contraction might be the reason they limit its use to 6-floors.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Let's Get Crazy...

                          You know how I roll Mark; Being a service plumber you have to ignore the cheerleaders and get down to business and know that anything made in plumbing breaks, but which ones are going to need more consideration than others.

                          My years as a troubleshooter you would agree that you almost have to know how something breaks/what causes it to fix it.


                          I've cut into PVC, CPVC that as soon as I cut the pipe, it's instantly longer than where I cut it or the holes drilled for the penetrations simply do not align.

                          They are already stating that in order to make that final connection that there's give in that piping to do so.

                          Pushing inward 2 to 3 inches might not sound bad, but google expansion rates of that piping over 60 linear feet against temperature rise in 10 degree increments. Think about how we as plumbers have to snake a ditch when dealing with plastic water services, now the inside of this piping.That is a lot of strain for a pipe with no where to grow.
                          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                          • #28
                            Re: Let's Get Crazy...

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            It's amazing how stuff gets approved so fast these days. Don't suppose money has anything to do with it? Or perhaps nobody cares anymore. How is this the future of anything? How is this better than what was before? All it is is faster and cheaper and the end result is the same. Fast and cheap fast and cheap. That's one helluva train your on.
                            Just watched one of My favorite movies " THE FLIM FLAM MAN" I can see George C. Scott
                            doing this recir. demo in the grocery store. Then feasting in the woods afterward !
                            I always wanted to find that little paradise! RENT IT,YOU'LL ENJOY!
                            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Let's Get Crazy...

                              To me, any good plumber should question methods.

                              Both new AND old. Or else lead solder would be used in all potable water piping. Right?

                              This system at least gets one thinking, questioning and challenging both new and old. For me anyways.

                              Maybe others have, but I hadn't ever considered an internal recirc line.

                              For those that don't like the PEX, I'm pretty sure I could do it in copper by using my brain a little bit. My only concern and trial/error would be at the top orifice for sizing and wear.

                              The expansion of PEX in the riser may be handled by the flexibility of 3/8" piping curving a couple of times naturally. But it raises questions as to what that does? It may just Curve/bow after expansion and be fine for many years. Or it might cause something bad to go wrong.

                              Also saying that "there is zero restriction" is incorrect. It does not matter if you increase the riser size to allow for the restriction. I can do that too. But to say that "there is zero restriction" is a lie. You cannot put anything into a flowing line and not have a % of restriction. I'm just saying represent things accurately.

                              There might be savings at one end but on the other end noone mentions the additional costs of upsizing the riser to cancel the internal restriction.

                              I would also like to see the method at which they arrived at the 40% energy reduction.

                              What type of systems did they set up side by side and meter the energy usage? Theoretical on paper does NOT count. We can all do that.

                              Once again, I don't think anyone should immediately think this is the "new", smart, and only way to do things. But should think and question it vs. traditional or "old" and time-tested ways of doing things.

                              With some of the questions answered, it might be a good, alternative, or new standard.

                              Studying, watching, waiting....

                              J.C.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Let's Get Crazy...

                                JC you are right on here. So many of these gee wiz wonders come on the market and some slick salesman sits at a table down at your local supply house giving a quick demo and handing you literature and if the guy is good enough he hooks you. a lot of guys think that I would like to go back 100 years but if you saw my shop, my tools and the equipment we sell and install you would soon get a different idea indeed. I am all for new technology. It is my business, it's what I do. That does not mean that I buy every gadget that comes my way. Progress for the sake of progress is no progress at all
                                sigpic

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