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Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

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  • #46
    Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

    This is nothing new. I have a bunch of galvanized nipples left over from my Gramps days of do it yourself plumbing. Matter of fact I was just looking at his old pipe cutters and 2 handle die holders. I scrapped out his lead melting stove when The price of steal was high. About 7 years ago he had city water run to his house. He tied the plumbing in himself. He took all his measurements and went to the local hardware store and had them cut and thread all his pipe. I guess he didn't know copper would have been easier. It still bugs me as to why he didn't let his grandson tie it in for him? I guess what I'm getting at is I've seen him my Dad and me before I became a plumber do plumbing stuff around the house. I'm guilty.

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    • #47
      Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

      Funny thing-- drain cleaning has no license or permit required and I have less competion in drain cleaning then plumbing. Go figure. No I do not want to see a license for drain cleaning.

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      • #48
        Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

        Originally posted by smorris View Post
        Some of you are painting us homeowners with a mighty big brush! I can assure you that other than the two fine gentlemen on this forum who did my bath remodel, that any electrical, plumbing, or HVAC that I've done on my house was done better and with more appropriate tools and parts than any pro I've hired.

        I shouldn't have to tell the HVAC guy what normally open/normally closed means on a solinoid, nor how to use the multimeter to check for continuity, then to have the motor fall out of my heat pump three hours after it was installed, ruining it, the fan, and the cover.

        Or the electrician who installed outside access emergency breakers in a plastic utility box that was more shallow than the height of the breakers. So he just screwed the cover down, bowed over the breakers and wide open to the elements.

        Or the cable guy who drilled though the foundation wall to install cables in the basement before finding out that I live on a slab...

        Or the plumber who, for who knows what reason, replaced the copper water lines in my mother's basement with the white coiled plastic, and then instead of running it though the original holes in the floor joists ran it underneath in big looping arcs.

        Yep, pros, every one of 'em. All pros must be such hacks (using the same logic being used by some of y'all. )
        Well, that is what you get for using the cheapest people you can find to do work for you.

        I have the best tools that money can buy. I use the best parts I can get my hands on. I am not the fastest, or slowest either. I do it right, if it takes forever, ohwell. I have learned the hard way, its easier to take longer, then to do what is easier, and then get to do it right anyways. You only have to do a job right, once. You can do it wrong forever. And you still have to do it right in the end lol.

        That being said, you need to do better research on these tradesmen you hire.

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        • #49
          Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

          Originally posted by Ninjaskillz View Post
          Well, that is what you get for using the cheapest people you can find to do work for you.

          I have the best tools that money can buy. I use the best parts I can get my hands on. I am not the fastest, or slowest either. I do it right, if it takes forever, ohwell. I have learned the hard way, its easier to take longer, then to do what is easier, and then get to do it right anyways. You only have to do a job right, once. You can do it wrong forever. And you still have to do it right in the end lol.

          That being said, you need to do better research on these tradesmen you hire.
          With all due respect I don't think you have the slightest idea of who smorris is. He likely had a part in you having some of those "best tools money can buy" you have. Most of us who know him, would not question his ability to do almost anything.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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          • #50
            Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

            Originally posted by smorris View Post
            Some of you are painting us homeowners with a mighty big brush!
            Steve, you would not believe the frustration in the construction field right now. High price of doing business coupled with the overall perceived health of the economy makes for a miserable time to be in the trades. The early 80s and 90s make this time look tame.

            Threads like this, and other depressing ones that Dunbar has posted, truly reflect the State of Construction. It sucks big time and when I win the Lottery, my phones will be disconnected the second that big ol' check clears.

            Don't take it personally. We do love homeowners. Really.
            (The Low Spark of Steel-Toed Boys)

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            • #51
              Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              With all due respect I don't think you have the slightest idea of who smorris is. He likely had a part in you having some of those "best tools money can buy" you have. Most of us who know him, would not question his ability to do almost anything.

              Mark


              And this is where I've been alluding to somewhere in this thread I started. Too often I see the licensed professional doing everything but what his or her name denotes.

              It's a subject that most won't graze but when I hear of homeowners complaining of "what he/she did" in their home, and I get there and it's the truth?

              Now I'm the bad guy before I can be the good guy, and someone just made a buck with no respect to the trade, the license or even the reputation.

              Too often, way too often I see homeowners double spending with another plumber involved. Hell for all I know I could be one of them and no one contacted me...I would rather they did, but some people don't want confrontation and they just move along, leave it as an experience and call it a bad one.

              I certainly hope I haven't created that situation, but I am far from perfect in this world.

              The dumbing down of materials just made this probability/possibility extend into the less educated having the ability to do work that at one time took more than just watching another.


              That coiling of the water line smorris mentioned? I've come behind guys like that. Threw a flat rate price to do the job, rip-roar into doing the repair and in a very short time the job is done, large amount of money is exchanged, only to have the next opinion walk in behind the work, see the foolishness because someone wanted a fast buck with not a care in the world for whether or not it will look decent, and forever gone.

              Buyer's remorse, happens more than you know. I know I've done jobs that when I hand those numbers across my lips the customer is cringing. More time equals more money. Have to be reasonable to that idea as well.

              Let it be known,

              There are plumbers, non-licensed, roughing in complete homes from ground to roof for $11 an hour. I would think any plumber that accomplish that feat from start to finish efficiently is surely worth more than $11/hour but the reason the suppression of the wage?

              Products being used in the hands. 35 years ago you never heard of a stay at home mom making a lead pour, but you do hear of her getting some glue and cleaner, some gloves and a cup of tea with the attitude of telling her girlfriends how she beat the rap of a plumber fixing her piping under her sink.

              And now water line connections, to toilets/faucets/fixtures are tabbed to require NO TOOLS.

              I cannot blame one property owner, male or female to not trust a plumber or the competency of a plumber when the attitude is commonly known of "how much" you can make in plumbing, always trying to support that bullshit that just because you've stacked the deck in operation costs that somehow it's the customer's fault? You was randomly selected for the most part.

              Not everyone can solder a copper joint, that's part of the reason why I don't defray from that.

              Go to home depot and lowe's and see how many buy faucets/toilets/simple repair plumbing without the expertise of the plumber.

              That mentality will grow on the simple side of the plumbing equation. The big stuff is here to stay as "plumber only"...but it's a self destruction of the trade from within, whether you'll openly admit it or not.

              I'm 23 years in. Got another 35 I hope (does simple math, 75) < yep, 35 before IDGAFF who runs this trade into the ground.
              Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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              • #52
                Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

                Sadly a lot of people end up being DIYs out of the frustration of companies sending unskilled labor out and calling them tradesmen. I see it more and more every day where a nice looking truck pulls up with a sharply dressed empty suit and the sales lines just start spewing out. The dead giveaway is when they have to call their supervisor out to help or they have to reschedule so they can get parts. It is all a game of numbers and they get away with it on the easy stuff and have a supervisor for the tough stuff. One of my plumbers went to work in another State for 20-truck shop and he is one of the two "supervisors". The other 18-trucks have young kids who are learning on the job.

                Mark
                Last edited by ToUtahNow; 12-10-2009, 10:41 PM.
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

                  Originally posted by Ninjaskillz View Post
                  No one should be able to buy plumbing parts, but plumbers.
                  We have to go through at MINIMUM 3 years training, to even considered, to even be thought about, worth to install these parts.

                  Why should the Joe Blow homeowner trying to save-a-buck be able to buy this stuff? And put the public at risk because he was saving money, and thus contaminated the ENTIRE CITY from a incorrectly installed XXXXXXXX


                  It is just not right that anyone can buy parts, that we can not install without proper certification. Anyone else that believes otherwise is wrong.
                  The Illinois plumbing license law has a homeowner's exemption in it and that's for new installation of systems. You also do not need a license to make simple fixture repairs or even replacing a faucet or toilet.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

                    Originally posted by Swade Plumbing View Post
                    You also do not need a license to make simple fixture repairs or even replacing a faucet or toilet.
                    Where does it say that?

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                    • #55
                      Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

                      Originally posted by Swade Plumbing View Post
                      The Illinois plumbing license law has a homeowner's exemption in it and that's for new installation of systems. You also do not need a license to make simple fixture repairs or even replacing a faucet or toilet.
                      That is not what I was told when i went down state for my continued education. A home owner can only make minor repairs, like but in a new faucet stem, change a flapper in the toilet. But if requires any disconnection from the plumbing system they must hire a plumber.

                      The following is from the Code book.

                      "Minor Repairs": Repairs that do not require changes in the piping to or from plumbing fixtures or involve the removal, replacement, installation or reinstallation of any pipe or plumbing fixture.
                      Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                      Ron's Facebook
                      A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                      Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                      Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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                      • #56
                        Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

                        Thats the definition I was thinking of.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

                          A homeowner can apply for a plumbing permit under the homeowner's exemption and run the plumbing in their own house as long as they are the ones doing the work and they are the ones living in the house. You also have to establish that you will live in the house for at least 1 year to keep the home flippers from going too far. This is my understanding from my father who is the inspector in riverside and one of the state inspectors.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

                            Originally posted by Swade Plumbing View Post
                            A homeowner can apply for a plumbing permit under the homeowner's exemption and run the plumbing in their own house as long as they are the ones doing the work and they are the ones living in the house. You also have to establish that you will live in the house for at least 1 year to keep the home flippers from going too far. This is my understanding from my father who is the inspector in riverside and one of the state inspectors.
                            I will ask again when I am down south taking my CE class. I prefer the classes down south since they are taught by the state inspectors that work in Springfield.
                            Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                            Ron's Facebook
                            A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                            Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                            Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

                              Originally posted by Swade Plumbing View Post
                              A homeowner can apply for a plumbing permit under the homeowner's exemption and run the plumbing in their own house as long as they are the ones doing the work and they are the ones living in the house. You also have to establish that you will live in the house for at least 1 year to keep the home flippers from going too far. This is my understanding from my father who is the inspector in riverside and one of the state inspectors.

                              same here except it's a 2 year window for owner occupied. of course i doubt they enforce it. hopefully the courts will if it gets down to it

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

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                              • #60
                                Re: Statement from Plumbing Supply House Today

                                Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                                I will ask again when I am down south taking my CE class. I prefer the classes down south since they are taught by the state inspectors that work in Springfield.
                                The catch is that there must be a permit for all work and it must be inspected by the (licesned) plumbing inspector.

                                to PlumberRICK: I have seen it enforced!! Cost the cheats a TON of money. Stronger enforecement = better quality of work and protection community health. Yet another reason to write your state congressman and lobby for more stringent laws and TOUGHER ENFORCEMENT! We're working on getting more state inspectors here in IL, but I'm not holding my breath. IL has the 2nd lowest credit rating in the country (slightly ahead of CA )

                                And don't even get me started on the lack of enforecement for backflow prevention!!

                                -Chris

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