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  • #16
    Re: Unlicensed Plumber

    Licensed plumbers have every right to be proud of the work they do. I take issue with arrogant plumbers.

    I won't go on to say why plumbers should be proud of earning and receiving their license, only to receive some smart *** comment from pipestone kid.

    Having a plumbing license is about following the law. In the case of the Michigan man who murdered someone, this points to a beginning of deception and not abiding by the law.

    Those who have trouble with laws usually like to make excuses about not following it. In one form or another this revolves around money.
    Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

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    • #17
      Re: Unlicensed Plumber

      Originally posted by Tyman View Post
      Licensed plumbers have every right to be proud of the work they do. I take issue with arrogant plumbers.

      I won't go on to say why plumbers should be proud of earning and receiving their license, only to receive some smart *** comment from pipestone kid.

      Having a plumbing license is about following the law. In the case of the Michigan man who murdered someone, this points to a beginning of deception and not abiding by the law.

      Those who have trouble with laws usually like to make excuses about not following it. In one form or another this revolves around money.
      Tyman:
      Have you noticed that all the negative comments come from Non- plumbers? I can't imagine going into a forum for professional electricians, or professional carpenters, or any other trade I'm not performing or affiliated with, and bashing them.
      I just enjoy, mostly reading the everyday experiences, that are shared here, because I live it. And I don't judge any one just for sharing their thoughts. But the negativity, or bashing, especially from non- plumbers,ruins it for everyone.
      Like you say, if your proud to be a plumber, then you want to do everything the right, & professional way, and that all starts at the beginning, by getting a license, and following the law.
      Last edited by Don the plumber; 01-13-2010, 08:16 AM.

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      • #18
        Re: Unlicensed Plumber

        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
        I just priced a "hot water heater" tonight for a new homeowner that just can't get used to the "variably random adjusting hot water" feature of the shower.

        Supplemental electric in tandem off a boiler tankless, which, as NHMaster will agree, is crap, crap, crappity crap.
        I thought you said you were retired.

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        • #19
          Re: Unlicensed Plumber

          Here in Illinois you can report people doing plumbing that are unlicensed that is doing plumbing work. Also if they are advertising plumbing with out displaying a valid license bumber you can report them as well.

          http://www.ilphcc.com/images/YourAssistanceNeeded.pdf

          Also the PAMCANI has been publishing an aritcle about the importance of using a licesned plumber. http://www.pamcani.org/media/2009/license.html Here is the articale for those affrad to click the link.

          Show Me The License

          Is Your Family's Health and Safety Going Down The Drain?

          By S.J. Peters, Executive Director of PAMCANI

          From doctors to lawyers to surgeons and airline pilots, most of us prefer to have the best and brightest, most highly trained professionals in our corner when our lives or those of our family are on the line, and rightfully so. It’s reassuring to know these professionals have years of education and training, are under constant professional regulation and are required to be fully licensed. This helps to ensure the general well being of the American public.

          But many people are surprised to learn that another profession dedicated to protecting the nation’s health and safety also demands years of training, government regulation and stringent license requirements.

          That profession is plumbing. That’s right. Your local plumbing contractor.

          The Illinois General Assembly regulates plumbing and the plumbing trade for the protection of the public’s health, convenience and welfare. Anyone who plans, inspects, installs, alters, repairs and maintains plumbing systems must meet certain licensing requirements. All licensed plumbers must follow the Illinois Plumbing Code as a minimum standard for all work performed in the State of Illinois, and continuing education is required each year by the State for plumbers to renew their plumbing license. That translates into four hours of approved, accredited on-going training.

          You also may not be aware of the fact that licensed plumbers and plumbing contractors in the State of Illinois are required to display their license number in all advertising.

          In short, it’s illegal to perform, operate or advertise plumbing services as a plumber or plumbing contractor in the State of Illinois without a license. If they have a license, they need to show it.

          Illegal plumbing contractors may be draining local homes and businesses of proper safety. From the water we drink or bathe in to proper sewage drainage, plumbing is serious business. If it’s not done right, it can make us sick…or worse.

          Since many of us only call a plumbing contractor when there’s an emergency, thinking about whether or not they’re licensed can be one of the last things on our minds.

          That’s where we can help. We’re PAMCANI…the Plumbing and Mechanical Contractors Authority of Northern Illinois, a non-profit trade association.

          We have obtained a current list of all licensed plumbing contractors in Illinois. If you have a contractor in mind, call us toll-free at 1-800-273-5966 to verify that they’re a licensed plumbing contractor. If you’re looking for a local contractor recommendation, visit our website at www.pamcani.org. All PAMCANI-affiliated contractors are licensed professionals who have the right training to keep your family’s health and safety from going down the drain.

          We cover a wide area, so if you’re a home or business owner in northern Illinois, then you are in our service region and our PAMCANI service contractors will be able to meet your needs.
          Why should you count on PAMCANI?
          To begin with, your local PAMCANI-affiliated contractors are professionals who set and maintain the highest standards for quality and value. Our union contractors cover a six-county area hiring journeymen and apprentices from United Association Locals 93 and 501. We perform plumbing, heating and cooling work in every area of construction, including residential, commercial, industrial and more.

          Our trained, skilled and capable work force live in the community and may even be your neighbors. They devote their considerable experience and expertise to local homes, businesses, hospitals, hotels, restaurants, schools, office buildings, factories and more — all with a devotion and proven track record for safety, quality and professionalism that’s second to none.

          The PAMCANI Alliance represents association members who take an active role in promoting and advancing the plumbing and mechanical trades. Many who belong and lead the association participate in the selection process for future apprentices. This participation occurs jointly and cooperatively with our counterparts from the union to ensure that only the top candidates enter and remain in the industry.

          PAMCANI Alliance members share and endorse the duty of establishing and maintaining rigid standards and continuing education programs to protect the health and safety of society, while keeping our workforce fully prepared to meet the challenge of doing the job right — first and always.

          Our contractor members volunteer to serve on Trust Funds, take part in collective bargaining, speak out in legislative matters and much more. They do it with the goal of improving the lives of those we serve and the livelihoods of those who work along side us in this industry.

          So the next time you turn on a faucet, flush a toilet or water your garden, you may not be thinking about all of the education and training that goes into the union plumbing industry, but we do.

          And when a situation arises where you need a plumbing contractor for your home or business, remember that the one you choose needs to be licensed and properly trained. The easiest way to be sure they are is to call us toll free at 1-800-273-5966 or log on to www.pamcani.org.

          Do it now and keep their number on hand before there’s an emergency. That way you can rest easy knowing that you have a PAMCANI-affiliated contractor protecting the health and safety of you and your family.

          This article originally appeared in the Business Ledger and the Aurora Beacon News.
          Last edited by SewerRatz; 01-13-2010, 09:29 AM.
          Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
          A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
          Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
          Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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          • #20
            Re: Unlicensed Plumber

            Originally posted by Tyman View Post
            Licensed plumbers have every right to be proud of the work they do. I take issue with arrogant plumbers.

            I won't go on to say why plumbers should be proud of earning and receiving their license, only to receive some smart *** comment from pipestone kid.

            Having a plumbing license is about following the law. In the case of the Michigan man who murdered someone, this points to a beginning of deception and not abiding by the law.

            Those who have trouble with laws usually like to make excuses about not following it. In one form or another this revolves around money.
            I don't disagree that plumbers should be proud of their trade and receiving their license--just don't bash other trades when being proud and don't try to take credit for saving the world all by yourself. If you do, I, or someone else, will post some "smart *** remark.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Unlicensed Plumber

              Okay guys let's all calm down. I too believe only licensed plumbers should do plumbing. However, we all know that chages greatly from State to State or even Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Unlicensed Plumber

                Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                I don't disagree that plumbers should be proud of their trade and receiving their license--just don't bash other trades when being proud and don't try to take credit for saving the world all by yourself. If you do, I, or someone else, will post some "smart *** remark.
                The label at the top of this section reads "professional pluimbing discussion".

                He didn't bash any other trade, he spoke his mind of the virtues of the trade, I completely agree with him.

                If NHMaster wants to exude pride for his vocation, regardless how little you agree, take it up with someone who might agree with you, it appears there isn't anyone here agreeing, which might have something to do with that little "professional plumbing discussion" detail in the title.

                If your not familiar with the man, he's a licensed master, licensed teacher, he teaches the trade for a living, he gets dibs on credibility.

                I might suggest, maybe find a forum of "plumber haters" to make a post like that, you'll get agreement all over, here is asking for adversity like walking into a biker bar and telling everyone Harley's suck, there's a time and a place, this isn't it.



                Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
                I thought you said you were retired.
                I wish.
                Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                Here in Illinois you can report people doing plumbing that are unlicensed that is doing plumbing work. Also if they are advertising plumbing with out displaying a valid license bumber you can report them as well.

                I don't know if you were here for it, but there was a member who was doing plumbing without a license from IL.

                Several of us decided to poke around IL law and holy crap, you boys don't kid around, potential jail time for unlicensed plumbing, dayum.


                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                In most states that require a plumbing license, plumbing without one is a misdemeanor or a felony. That your plumbing board or legislature does not want to enforce the law is the real crime. And, unless you as a group do something the abuse will continue. Call or write your state rep, governor, plumbing board atty general.
                After one too many home explosions or projectile water heaters, that changes.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Unlicensed Plumber

                  Thanks Ducks and I am proud of our profession. Even the American Medical Association has credited plumbers and modern plumbing with saving more lives than all the doctors and nurses put together. I think folks tend to not know just how important sanitary plumbing and sanitary plumbing methods are to their health. folks don't die from cholera and dyptheria and other nasty water and fecal born diseases like they used to and most of that can be credited to Plumbing.
                  sigpic

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                  • #24
                    Re: Unlicensed Plumber

                    To NHMaster: If I have offended you in my post, I sincerely apologize.
                    To Duck butter: You refer to "Professional plumbing discussion" Please read the writing underneath that title--I fit that description
                    You call me a plumber hater--far from it. My father was a plumber.
                    Here is the part I was referring to in my original post-please read it carefully: Because plumbing, unlike electrical or contracting, is a profession. A licensed profession. Like Doctors and lawyers. A very old profession. A profession that has single handedly raised the standard of health in the entire world. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with that statement. Electricians have to be licensed and are professionals, likewise contractors. And I don't believe that any trade can claim that they have "single handedly" raised the standard of health of the entire world.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Unlicensed Plumber

                      A profession that has single handedly raised the standard of health in the entire world.



                      To this day, there are deaths, illnesses that result from improper or inadequate plumbing systems.


                      A teacher won't prevent that, they can only talk about it.

                      A doctor can't stop that, they can only treat the systems and not protect from recurrence.

                      A lawyer can sue to force the situation to change, but the legal system won't make the situation go away in immediate fashion.


                      There are countries that still to this day, do not have clean water...

                      A plumber can fix that.

                      There are countries that can't even dispose of what leaves their bodies in urine and feces...and this is year 2010...

                      A plumber can cure that.



                      If plumbing was installed properly in every home, every state, every country and in every nation across the world...

                      Teachers wouldn't have to teach as much

                      Doctors wouldn't have to treat as much

                      People wouldn't have to die as much


                      Anyone can take for granted the trip to the faucet or the sit on the toilet and a flip of a handle brings you safety and dispose of the hazard.

                      But when you involved the world in a statement why so many are ill, so many are dieing, so many that continually get sick from what came from themselves...



                      You can teach a kid or an adult, a senior citizen to protect yourself, but water is the #1 solvent and without that being clean, it's a dangerous and slippery slope to disaster. Teaching won't stop the danger.


                      A doctor can only treat and cure only when he can stop the event or tragedy from happening again.

                      Doctors ONLY deal with the problem after the problem has occurred.


                      2010 and still there isn't worldwide plumbing systems across the world. Plumbers in the creation of these plumbing systems would indirectly


                      Save lives
                      Prevent sickness and injury
                      Prevent recurrences

                      which in turn


                      provides less teachings for teachers

                      less work for doctors and the medical profession

                      allows for healthier living by removing the bad.


                      And to think people get urinary tract infections, skin infections around their anus due to improper cleaning and they won't even use a bidet toilet seat to keep their body clean, just like the shower provided earlier in the day.


                      Take a trip to your local neighborhood, local slum town, local bad city, local bad part of the state, local bad part of the country, try africa for measure and see how bad people live by the risk of death caused by no proper sanitation or fresh, clean water for living.


                      No working plumbing and you can toss the teachers and doctors, anyone who "thinks" they make a difference trying to deal with the problems once the event has taken place.
                      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                      • #26
                        Re: Unlicensed Plumber

                        Pipestone, I didn't pull that AMA quote out of thin air. At a conference a couple of years ago, the AMA credited sanitary plumbing and plumbers for raising the standard of health in those countries where sanitary plumbing and licensed plumbers practice. You can find it online.

                        Yes electricians are licensed, so are a lot of other trades and a few other professions. But an electrical problem probably will not sicken or kill more than a few people while a plumbing problem (cross connection, backflow issue, improper disposal of sewage) can and has caused sickness and many millions of deaths over the centuries. We licensed plumbers have the knowledge, and skills to head off disaster at the source.
                        sigpic

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                        • #27
                          Re: Unlicensed Plumber

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          Pipestone, I didn't pull that AMA quote out of thin air. At a conference a couple of years ago, the AMA credited sanitary plumbing and plumbers for raising the standard of health in those countries where sanitary plumbing and licensed plumbers practice. You can find it online.

                          Yes electricians are licensed, so are a lot of other trades and a few other professions. But an electrical problem probably will not sicken or kill more than a few people while a plumbing problem (cross connection, backflow issue, improper disposal of sewage) can and has caused sickness and many millions of deaths over the centuries. We licensed plumbers have the knowledge, and skills to head off disaster at the source.
                          NHM: Now, when you phrase it that way, I cannot disagree.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Unlicensed Plumber

                            Originally posted by Pipestone Kid View Post
                            To NHMaster: If I have offended you in my post, I sincerely apologize.
                            To Duck butter: You refer to "Professional plumbing discussion" Please read the writing underneath that title--I fit that description
                            You call me a plumber hater--far from it. My father was a plumber.
                            Here is the part I was referring to in my original post-please read it carefully: Because plumbing, unlike electrical or contracting, is a profession. A licensed profession. Like Doctors and lawyers. A very old profession. A profession that has single handedly raised the standard of health in the entire world. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with that statement. Electricians have to be licensed and are professionals, likewise contractors. And I don't believe that any trade can claim that they have "single handedly" raised the standard of health of the entire world.
                            I suggested a forum of "plumber haters" to glean a favorable reaction to your reply to NHMaster.

                            The title still says "professional plumbing discussion" with nothing else below the title, you're confusing it with the section that states "and related trades", which alludes to the high probability that "professional plumbers", frequent this section, making adverse statements toward a member for his trade pride, or asserting there was a member "bashing" another trade is incorrect, he said nothing at all about any other trade, period.

                            The only observable "bashing" was your "I bet your arm hurts" statement.

                            The quality and longevity of human life over the last 200 years is attributed in very large part to the advent of indoor plumbing, we're allowed to discuss that in the "professional plumbing forum" till the cows come home, I don't feel any more compelled to feel shy because you dissent.

                            On that note, Mark's right, the subject is dead, NHMaster has further elaborated on the importance via the AMA opinion on the topic, plumbing.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Unlicensed Plumber

                              Okay I think this has gotten way too personal. If it continues I will have to lock this thread down. I believe we are all capable of carrying on a civil discussion to it's conclusion without getting personal.

                              Thanks-Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Unlicensed Plumber

                                I have no animosity towards anyone, but I will defend the profession. I feel that it is part of my duty and responsibility to do so. Maybe It's because I'm old and old school and hold on to ideals but I have no intention of stopping now. I will defend each and every one of you licensed plumbers and have and will to whatever I can to educate others and help move the trade forward. I have always thought of plumbers as a brotherhood. We may disagree and fight with each other but in the end we all share a pretty big responsibility to the public and to the trade. I posted some similar musings on another forum that curiously enough is owned by a plumber and was amazed at the beating I took there and was never backed up or defended by any of the moderators (licensed plumbers mostly) or the owner of the site himself who would rather sell stuff (and let the members sell stuff) online than stand up for his trade and his living. It's a sad comentary on the state of affairs.
                                Last edited by NHMaster3015; 01-14-2010, 07:06 PM. Reason: I spelled animisity wrong - go figer
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