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  • balcocks which kind

    i just got back from a call the city changed a valve in the street in the middle of the night and filled the fluidmaster full of debris. i was wondering what kind most of u use i like the pro fluid masters but they get stopped up to much and the float arm balcocks don't last as long

  • #2
    Re: balcocks which kind

    F.M.Pro 45 is what we use.

    Debris can clog any fill valve. F.M.'s are easy to maintain and
    work on just about any WC, including 1-pc.

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    • #3
      Re: balcocks which kind

      I use the Fluid Master 400A almost exclusivly. Very quick and easy to work on.

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      • #4
        Re: balcocks which kind

        fm 400a here.

        has anyone tried the new quiet fluid master?

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        • #5
          Re: balcocks which kind

          I've tried many different brands over the years, mostly ones that are more expensive, and I always come back to the FM 400A. Get em for around $5 when I get a 100 at a time. Can't beat em, on price, although I would prefer little better quality.
          I notice the newer 400A's don't shut off so hard. They seem to be much quieter when they shut off, than the older models did.
          Haven't heard about the ultra quiet ones yet, but I will try to find one & try it out.

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          • #6
            Re: balcocks which kind

            in the pro line fluid masters what would be the advantage of a brass shank over the plastic?

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            • #7
              Re: balcocks which kind

              Originally posted by mr bonds View Post
              in the pro line fluid masters what would be the advantage of a brass shank over the plastic?

              the customer may like it being brass, but i have never broken one. it looke like a big up charge for something that isnt really a problem IMO.

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              • #8
                Re: balcocks which kind

                Sometimes when a fluidmaster is used on older galvanized piping systems the rust, sand and scale will continue to get caught in the rubber seat at the top of the valve, and cause the toilet to run; even with generous pre-flushing of the supply flex, and to eliminate any more call backs, a small brass strainer can be fitted in line on the water supply tube. Problem solved.

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                • #9
                  Re: balcocks which kind

                  I use the Pro 45B exclusively. I like the brass shank and it has a filter in the shank ( I think the pro 45 does also). The nut won't run up as fast on the shank when you are installing it (makes it a little more of a hassle since I don't completely drain the tanks when installing) but I feel better with the brass. It's just a FEELING OK?
                  The new fill hose clips have a metal re-enforcement at their base now. They stay put much better.
                  As far as I'm concerned these are the best b.c. to use when high water pressure is an issue. They regulate the flow of water into the tank quite nicely and eliminate the water hammer because of a slower close.
                  I consider the upcharge minimal. I tell the customers it's the best of the Fluidmasters and for about a $5 difference you might as well have the best.

                  I have had two 400as' break at the base (inside the tank). On one the lady heard the water continuously running in the tank so she lifted off the lid.
                  Man, the top of the valve and the water shot to the ceiling
                  This is especially possible if the customer uses those chlorine tabs in the tank.

                  The Pro45 and Pro45B may also be prone to this but they haven't been in service long enough to tell I don't believe.

                  And the icing on the cake is, when they fail the symptom is usually a painfully slow refill of the tank. By the time that happens the customer has forgotten that this toilet is one you worked on a few years ago.
                  Great repeat income and job security.
                  "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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                  • #10
                    Re: balcocks which kind

                    Originally posted by mr bonds View Post
                    in the pro line fluid masters what would be the advantage of a brass shank over the plastic?
                    the advantage is i was on a marketing research project for the pro 45-b ballcock.

                    there is a new fluidmaster that is now available. it will work on the high refill toilets. it's the pro 45hr (high refill) it comes with 4 different inserts for the refill connection. will work on the toto and kohler. these require a higher percentage of bowl refill.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

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                    • #11
                      Re: balcocks which kind

                      I found that out the hard way on my Toto when I replaced the fill valve. Using a standard fill valve with the smaller bowl fill port affected the flushing performance.

                      I have been using Korky for Toto's but if Fluidmaster has those I will look into them.

                      To answer the original question. I use Fluidmaster Pro 45b. I don't consider the brass shank a upsell, it's just better than plastic. The valve is also easy to work on. I don't know if I am sold on the quiet fill insert yet. I tried it with and without it in and did not notice a difference. If it doesn't do anything it is just a place for debris to catch.

                      I have had two recalls on the Korky fill valve. They incorporate a long filter inside the body of the valve and on both occasions that filter was clogged. If they have a softener or whole house filter I don't have any issues installing them, but out in the country I get concerned.

                      I tried the Wolverine Brass orange plastic ones and they really suck. The only thing good about them is they have a quick positive shutoff. The bad thing is the positive shut off also, water hammer was an issue in a few houses.
                      Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

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                      • #12
                        Re: balcocks which kind

                        Originally posted by Tyman View Post
                        I found that out the hard way on my Toto when I replaced the fill valve. Using a standard fill valve with the smaller bowl fill port affected the flushing performance.

                        I have been using Korky for Toto's but if Fluidmaster has those I will look into them.

                        To answer the original question. I use Fluidmaster Pro 45b. I don't consider the brass shank a upsell, it's just better than plastic. The valve is also easy to work on. I don't know if I am sold on the quiet fill insert yet. I tried it with and without it in and did not notice a difference. If it doesn't do anything it is just a place for debris to catch.

                        I have had two recalls on the Korky fill valve. They incorporate a long filter inside the body of the valve and on both occasions that filter was clogged. If they have a softener or whole house filter I don't have any issues installing them, but out in the country I get concerned.

                        I tried the Wolverine Brass orange plastic ones and they really suck. The only thing good about them is they have a quick positive shutoff. The bad thing is the positive shut off also, water hammer was an issue in a few houses.
                        I have used the Wolverine Brass orange ones too, with no problem, other than if you have to adjust the height, after installing & the water is back on, that ajustment screw don't do much, & the lock for lowering the whole ballcock shaft, is impossible to get at. I also don't like the clip for bowl refill tube.
                        Tried the Korky fill valve before & had problems with it not shutting off, after I left job of course. Still have 1/2 dozen sitting on my shelf with black dust on them. I give them to my DIY friends, LOL.
                        I like the brass shank idea, and am gonna try them. Atleast, as far as my experiences have gone, the FM will either not fill the tank, or it fills slow, or has a delay fill, when they go bad. The other ones I have tried, seem to not shut off at all, when they go bad, which is alot worse.
                        I'm glad to hear you mention, Rick too, about the extra water needed for fill tubes on Toto toilets. I have been telling my supply house about this for years, and they think I'm full of it. They sell the 400A to their Toto customers, and claim no one has complained yet. I stock the 2 types of Toto fill valves, which are about $24 apiece, just for this reason. I have a Toto Plymouth in my house, and put a FM in there to try it, and it did not fill up the bowl enough. I put a Toto fill valve in the next day. Problem with Toto fill valve is that it makes a bit of a squeak noise when it turns on and off. Also the new ones, are not adjustable, as far as the shank goes. Still has adjustable screw on top but no adjustable shank anymore. Glad to hear about the new FM that will work on Toto toilets.
                        Last edited by Don the plumber; 01-24-2010, 09:45 AM.

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                        • #13
                          rick

                          will the pro 45hr work on regular stools? breid...............

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                          • #14
                            Re: balcocks which kind

                            I won't install a Korky fill valve. If I install a Toto I instantly tell the customer to let me throw a 400A in because those fill valves have problems. Apparently Korky is fully aware of this and sell a $3 part that rectifies the problem......but wouldn't it be a better design to make the damn thing work properly from the go?

                            I just switched one out yesterday on a toto to a 400A.


                            On the brass shank idea from fluidmaster...I instantly thought that was a good idea but then I became reserved on that for numerous reasons:

                            1. When you buy a flex supply, or even a pex riser supply, you are connecting a plastic to plastic connection. Plastic threads (supply nut) to a plastic shank.

                            I always wondered why all the manufactures always put plastic nuts on toilet risers, as they could easily go brass like they do on everything else, right?

                            Well, think about how many toilets that have plastic shanks for all their fill valves, and it probably includes just about all except the old ones still in existence.

                            I had that attitude once of installing those brass/copper fill valves inside all my customer's homes, but the product choice of materials isn't bad, it's the attitude that some customers want a whole new mechanism instead of a repair of those old style fill valves.

                            But as much as I dislike plastic in so many ways... I believe a plastic supply nut to a plastic shank is a better combination than a plastic nut to a brass shank, given that plastic on plastic will contract and expand together than a brass shank that will fluctuate to room temperature back to cold throughout the years with no movement, and now the nut is doing just that, independently.

                            That's why those plastic nuts are hard to come off years later, with no signs of leaking up above or any type of thread sealant. It's the constant temperature fluctuations that expand and contract plastic products.

                            Now you know why most toilet risers have a plastic nut for a plastic shank.


                            Envision a brass nipple going into a plastic female adapter, FIP, that's what you have in essence.
                            Last edited by DUNBAR PLUMBING; 01-24-2010, 05:22 PM.
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                            • #15
                              Re: balcocks which kind

                              The knowledgeable person (not many there) at my supply house said they did have a problem on some plastic shank ones and/or the nut splitting and leaking.

                              Haven't had one myself but I HAVE found the plastic mounting nut split longways twice. (Around the circumference)

                              Makes you want a brass shank and mounting nut.

                              I will not install a Korky and I'd like to get my hands on the S.O.B. that "invented" that Am. Std. Yellow Submarine.

                              J.C.

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