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Backflow Cross Connection Meeting - Discussions about Liability

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  • #16
    Re: Backflow Cross Connection Meeting - Discussions about Liability



    I DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS ?

    IN A PERFECT WORLD THEY SHOULD BE ! !

    BUT AS I AM NOW RETIRED I WAS JUST GOING WITH WHAT THEY

    WERE SHOWING ON THE LOCAL NEWS STATIONS ABOUT THE FREEZE

    AND WHAT ONE FRIEND RELATED TO ME ABOUT HIS NEIGHBOR
    JERRYMAC
    E-MAILJERRYMAC777@GMAIL.COM
    CALIF. LIC. PLBG,HEAT,DRAINS,ELECTRIC,WATER HEATER, BOILER, POOL AND SPA HEATER
    FIRE SPRINKLER CONTRACTOR,
    SINCE JAN. 1989

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Backflow Cross Connection Meeting - Discussions about Liability

      Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
      Lawn sprinklers are a very high hazard. That is why in Illinois it has to be an RPZ now , no more Pressure Vacuum Breakers. Each sprinkler head is a breading ground for some nasty stuff. Also if they treat their lawn with weed killers, pesticides, and fertilizer. Plus many do not think about this, but your lawn is the bathroom for the animal world.

      And Dunbar all devices have to be tested here in Illinois yearly, no matter where it is installed.
      Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with back flow prevention, but my personal opinion is that a lawn sprinkler system is not high hazard.
      Has anyone ever seen a back flow of fertilizer, or peticide, or animal extract, into a domestic water line. Now I'm talkin residential here,not Dow Chemical.
      I believe there is a higher hazard from hose bibbs, than from lawn sprinklers. We put these expensive PVB"S {which I'm not saying shouldn't be there} on lawn irrigation systems, & then allow a $3 hose VB to be screwed on to a hose outlet, that can & will most likely be removed.
      Then the hose can be put into anything from a swimming pool, to a cess pool, & its allowed to be protected with a cheap device, that will unscrew by hand in most cases. I know about the set screw too, but I bet more than 1/2 the hose bibb VB's I install are removed. Thats why I try to sell them a frost free with integral VB, but cost is a factor, especially on residential & rentals, violation repairs.
      Does each of the municipalities in Illinois notify every single homeowner, each year, & remind them they need to test their back flow device?
      Is there a certain date they are required to get them tested each year, or is it 1yr from date of install?
      If there is a set date such as Jan 1, what if you install one in oct, or nov, you gotta test it again, jan 1?
      Do they charge each homeowner somehow, for all this record keeping?
      What happens if the homeowner forgets to have it done, or can't afford it?
      I don't think Illinois is living in the same recession we are here.Now they want an RPZ? How much is a 1" RPZ, $350? I think if we had to test lawn sprinkler PVB's every year here, {in houses} people would either go to jail instead, or remove the system altogether.
      As I said, as a plumber, yea I love it, RPZ over PVB, fine, test every year, great, just trying to sell it all for a descent profit, is another story. Every city I go to around here has a list of certified BF testers that most will do it for $75 or cheaper.By the time I schedule the call, go to job site, do the test, fill out paper work, yada yada, I don't see any profit.
      1 last thing, did I mention we're talkin residential houses here?
      Last edited by Don the plumber; 02-11-2010, 10:50 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: Backflow Cross Connection Meeting - Discussions about Liability

        Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
        Don't get me wrong, I fully agree with back flow prevention, but my personal opinion is that a lawn sprinkler system is not high hazard.
        Has anyone ever seen a back flow of fertilizer, or peticide, or animal extract, into a domestic water line. Now I'm talkin residential here,not Dow Chemical.
        I believe there is a higher hazard from hose bibbs, than from lawn sprinklers. We put these expensive PVB"S {which I'm not saying shouldn't be there} on lawn irrigation systems, & then allow a $3 hose VB to be screwed on to a hose outlet, that can & will most likely be removed.
        Then the hose can be put into anything from a swimming pool, to a cess pool, & its allowed to be protected with a cheap device, that will unscrew by hand in most cases. I know about the set screw too, but I bet more than 1/2 the hose bibb VB's I install are removed. Thats why I try to sell them a frost free with integral VB, but cost is a factor, especially on residential & rentals, violation repairs.
        Does each of the municipalities in Illinois notify every single homeowner,
        each year, & remind them they need to test their back flow device?

        Most larger cities do, most smaller cities don't.

        Is there a certain date they are required to get them tested each year, or is it 1yr from date of install?

        One year from last test.
        If there is a set date such as Jan 1, what if you install one in oct, or nov, you gotta test it again, jan 1?
        Do they charge each homeowner somehow, for all this record keeping?

        Again, some have fees, some don't. Some have filing fees for filing test forms, some don't.

        What happens if the homeowner forgets to have it done, or can't afford it?

        Here in Peoria, the water co can shut you off. I have seen that done in a commercial setting, but never seen it on a residential setting.

        I don't think Illinois is living in the same recession we are here.Now they want an RPZ?

        Been that way for a long time. I don't think a recession has anything to do with it.

        How much is a 1" RPZ, $350?

        The last 1" 975XL i bought was 208.00ish

        I think if we had to test lawn sprinkler PVB's every year here, {in houses} people would either go to jail instead, or remove the system altogether.
        As I said, as a plumber, yea I love it, RPZ over PVB, fine, test every year, great, just trying to sell it all for a descent profit, is another story. Every city I go to around here has a list of certified BF testers that most will do it for $75 or cheaper.

        Let 'em.

        By the time I schedule the call, go to job site, do the test, fill out paper work, yada yada, I don't see any profit.
        1 last thing, did I mention we're talkin residential houses here?
        Several years ago, I rolled up to a customer's house and the Chemlawn guy was there.

        I saw him messing with a sprinkler head. Long story short, he had rigged up a deal where he hooked his chemical hose off the truck and tied it in with the irrigation piping. he then pumped it through the piping where it came out the other heads.

        I'd call that "High Hazard"

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Backflow Cross Connection Meeting - Discussions about Liability

          Originally posted by lmpg View Post
          Several years ago, I rolled up to a customer's house and the Chemlawn guy was there.

          I saw him messing with a sprinkler head. Long story short, he had rigged up a deal where he hooked his chemical hose off the truck and tied it in with the irrigation piping. he then pumped it through the piping where it came out the other heads.

          I'd call that "High Hazard"
          Exactly the point of having a testable backflow assembly on a residential irrigation system!

          What would have happened if this home didn't have a backflow device, and there was a main line break or repair. Or a fire a couple of blocks away, or even, just an open fire hydrant? All of these incidents will cause a back-siphonage situation, sucking all available water (and anything else) back towards the break.

          What would have happened if it wasn't a lawn chem guy, but a contractor mixing chemicals to spray termites? That stuff bonds with metal. I know of a incident when all of the piping in the street and each home in an entire neighborhood had to be replaced because they couldn't get the chemical flushed. Millions of dollars for replacement, lots of aggrivation for inconvienience, and all because the HO didn't have a backflow device, and the contractor simply didn't pay attention or make sure a backflow device was installed.

          Yeah, depending on the situation, some residences are high risk.

          I'm also pretty sure that I don't want to be sipping these little guys when I reach for a glass of water.

          http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/phyla/e.../nematoda.html

          Mick
          Attached Files

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          • #20
            Re: Backflow Cross Connection Meeting - Discussions about Liability

            I knew you guys would clobber me, and thats ok. I am fully with you on back flow prevention, as long as it is consistant. Every city should have same rules. If you want a fancy device protecting the lawn sprinkler system, then require one for the hose bibbs too. A hose can be laying on the lawn, right next to sprinkler head, or stuck in a green swimming pool, or bucket of any chemical, which I believe is alot more likely to happen. 50% of houses I see don't have a hose VB.
            As far as recession having nothing to do with it; If the cities don't have money, they aint gonna start hiring people to staff a backflow prevention,& enforcement program. I'm not saying its right, but its reality.
            We have no sidewalks in our neighborhood, and it is dangerous for kids walking to school, especially when streets are not plowed. Well guess what, our streets still don't get plowed, even though it is a dangerous situation. Due to cut backs in city services, our streets rarely, if ever get plowed. They use to get plowed every time it snowed. Last year I seen the plow 1 time.

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            • #21
              Re: Backflow Cross Connection Meeting - Discussions about Liability

              Geez that video died right at the money shot...
              411 Plumb Appliance Stimulus Package

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