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Removing angle stops

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  • Removing angle stops

    Can you or do you use the old nut and ferrule:

    1) If it was originally put on to tight and removing it will elongate the copper.

    2) There is not enough stub out to trim back to eliminate the elongated or damaged copper.

    3) How about applying teflon tape to old ferrules and then using them.

    I've recently had a swarm of ultra cranked down stops w/ short stub outs. When starting to remove the ferrule you can tell right away that the copper will be damaged if you try to pull it. There is a tool out that snaps the ferrule without pulling, but if the ferrule has already caused damage (to tight), the new ferrule will prob end up in the same location. I've never tried to use the old nut and ferrule, but I've seen it done. Is it kosher in a pinch?

  • #2
    Re: Removing angle stops

    I've done it many times, if someone didn't tighten it too much, not so bad.
    but I'm not doing it anymore. I had a nut crack on me about a week after I did one a while back. I got lucky that it didn't cause a flood. so now I tell them the cabinet will cut out in the back, lose the escutcheon and just deal with the looks. so there is a risk using the old nut.

    Sometimes if there's room, you can solder on an 1/2 inch MIP and use a IP stop.

    Here's another bad case too, some people use compression stops on CPVC. now later the pipe is more brittle than it was. so i will not re-compress these at all.
    Last edited by Flowofmoney; 02-25-2010, 07:15 PM.
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    • #3
      Re: Removing angle stops

      A simpler question to your post would be; How much liability insurance do you carry?

      All it takes is one leak, and you know the one I am talking about. You change out the Angle Stop on a Friday Morning, customer leaves for the weekend camping trip and comes home Sunday night to find the house flooded.

      Don't think it happens guess again.

      Around five years ago one of my plumbing supply managers told me a story about his brothers house.

      Plumber came in and changed an angle stop in the upstairs master bathroom. Used the old nut and Ferrel. He went on vacation for two weeks. Ten days into the trip his neighbor across the street, (he's been noticing water coming down the driveway for a couple of days) walked over to the house and found water coming out from under the garage door. He turned the water off to the house.

      When the owner got home they found that the angle stop compression failed and water pressure blew it off the pipe. Water had been running throughout the upstairs and cascading down the stairway to the main floors. Nice thing about dry wall it acts like a giant wick. In the end they had to move out of the house for four months while all the drywall was removed.

      It's always better to cut upon a wall, which by the way can be easily patched, then to mess with a potential lawsuit down the road.

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      • #4
        Re: Removing angle stops

        Originally posted by Watersurgeon View Post
        A simpler question to your post would be; How much liability insurance do you carry?

        All it takes is one leak, and you know the one I am talking about. You change out the Angle Stop on a Friday Morning, customer leaves for the weekend camping trip and comes home Sunday night to find the house flooded.

        Don't think it happens guess again.

        Around five years ago one of my plumbing supply managers told me a story about his brothers house.

        Plumber came in and changed an angle stop in the upstairs master bathroom. Used the old nut and Ferrel. He went on vacation for two weeks. Ten days into the trip his neighbor across the street, (he's been noticing water coming down the driveway for a couple of days) walked over to the house and found water coming out from under the garage door. He turned the water off to the house.

        When the owner got home they found that the angle stop compression failed and water pressure blew it off the pipe. Water had been running throughout the upstairs and cascading down the stairway to the main floors. Nice thing about dry wall it acts like a giant wick. In the end they had to move out of the house for four months while all the drywall was removed.

        It's always better to cut upon a wall, which by the way can be easily patched, then to mess with a potential lawsuit down the road.

        You got that right, most people don't realize what risk plumbing contractor's have on a day-to-day basis.
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        • #5
          Re: Removing angle stops

          I take my hack saw blade and cut the Ferrel,then split it with a screwdriver
          If the pipe is round i put the new stuff on & teflon the ferrel
          If its not round and its in a cabinet i solder on a cpl and a new stub

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          • #6
            I'm with you

            The $$ risk is just to much and if you care for someone else's home like your own it wears on you conscience.

            If I see a stop with no extra pipe I warn the folks that there is the possibility of going into the wall. They might not like hearing it, but they typicall see the point and in the end know that they've got a better end result.

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            • #7
              Re: Removing angle stops

              If the nut and ferrule is in good condition and not corroded or stretched, and most importantly the same thread size and pitch, (there are at least 3 different thread pitches out there), I am not afraid to screw a new anglestop (Brasscraft always) with a small amount of teflon paste on the threads and ferrule. I have never had a failure doing this, so I am very confident. I use the Pasco nut and ferrule puller when I need to remove it all.

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              • #8
                Re: Removing angle stops

                Originally posted by plumb4life View Post
                If the nut and ferrule is in good condition and not corroded or stretched, and most importantly the same thread size and pitch, (there are at least 3 different thread pitches out there), I am not afraid to screw a new anglestop (Brasscraft always) with a small amount of teflon paste on the threads and ferrule. I have never had a failure doing this, so I am very confident. I use the Pasco nut and ferrule puller when I need to remove it all.

                100%

                in the old days when the stops we used had a coarse thread, i had to cut off the nut and slit the ferrule. then the puller came out and i've only had an issue removing 2 in the hundreds that i've had to swap from coarse to fine.

                the proper puller is the key to success. there are different pullers that don't do as good a job.

                if the nuts the same, then the all is fine

                once again 400 angle stops a day, i know my angle stops

                rick.
                phoebe it is

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                • #9
                  Re: Removing angle stops

                  Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                  100%

                  in the old days when the stops we used had a coarse thread, i had to cut off the nut and slit the ferrule. then the puller came out and i've only had an issue removing 2 in the hundreds that i've had to swap from coarse to fine.

                  the proper puller is the key to success. there are different pullers that don't do as good a job.

                  if the nuts the same, then the all is fine

                  once again 400 angle stops a day, i know my angle stops

                  rick.
                  Feeling carpal-tunnel Rick? LOL

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                  • #10
                    Re: Removing angle stops

                    i use to come home with bloody knuckles. the drywall would scuff my knuckles raw.

                    in the old days a channel lock and a crescent wrench, then a 15/16'' open end wrench. then eventually a 15/16'' ratcheting speed wrench and a 1/2'' slip joint hold back. 1/2'' slip joint is much more popular than 3/8'' compression out here.

                    speed was made in fabbing the stops before you start. shut off the building and let it drain. as it's draining you're fabbing and distributing the stops and estucions.

                    end of the day, fill the system and walk the units. every now and then a painter would have left on a stop.

                    best one was forgetting to install an ice maker stop on the 4th floor. water was already onto the building and i wasn't going to shut the system to drain it.

                    so i cut the bullet on the fly, big burst of air, then water, and shoved the stop on then tightened. scary, but all went well.

                    now i only swap hose bibbs outdoor on the fly.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

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                    • #11
                      Re: Removing angle stops

                      <now i only swap hose bibbs outdoor on the fly.>

                      Rick, You don't change out gas valves on the fly? I thought everyone did that.

                      Speaking of changing valves on the fly, a couple weeks ago I changed out a 3/4 ips valve on the street side of the meter on the fly, and I didn't even get wet.

                      On the fixture shutoffs I have a neat little puller I use. It goes behind the nut and uses the pipe to hold back. Slick. The back of the puller is less than an 1/8th of an inch thick so it will fit into small spaces between the back of the nut and the wall.
                      Time flies like an arrow.

                      Fruit flies like a banana.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Removing angle stops

                        I use the old nut and ferrule 95% of the time. Points about liability well taken, but I've yet to get burnt. Really, I've seen enough of them, and so have you, that you know if they are going to **** you or not. And when they are, you tell them it's extra $ or walk away.

                        If you have to tape it, it's wrong, and you know it as well as I do. May do to get by for a day if they need to get the water back on, but it's got to be put right.
                        Last edited by Ace Sewer; 02-26-2010, 04:38 AM.
                        This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Removing angle stops

                          ON THE FLY !! Reminds Me of the old ball player. So fast,He could shut off the light , and get into bed ,before it was dark! I believe He was black. Who remembers His name ???
                          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                          • #14
                            Re: Removing angle stops

                            Originally posted by geno gardner View Post
                            <now i only swap hose bibbs outdoor on the fly.>

                            Rick, You don't change out gas valves on the fly? I thought everyone did that.

                            Speaking of changing valves on the fly, a couple weeks ago I changed out a 3/4 ips valve on the street side of the meter on the fly, and I didn't even get wet.

                            On the fixture shutoffs I have a neat little puller I use. It goes behind the nut and uses the pipe to hold back. Slick. The back of the puller is less than an 1/8th of an inch thick so it will fit into small spaces between the back of the nut and the wall.
                            of course i do, but we were talking water and angle stops.

                            saw the gas company a few weeks ago swap out a meter union washer in an under ground vault. he never bothered to even check the pilots on the heaters. i guess when you do it daily, you know what works and what doesn't.

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

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                            • #15
                              Re: Removing angle stops

                              I don't reuse the nuts. Been spraying a shot of wd40 on the ferrule before removing if it seems like its going to bind I rotate the puller 180 degrees to even out the pull, seems to work even tho by design of the puller I shouldn't have to. Very rarely have a problem anymore. I also apply a LITTLE teflon paste to shoulder of the valve and flush line.

                              wookie

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