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  • Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

    States, counties, and local codes can prohibit certain items being used in the plumbing in the buildings being built in their jurisdiction. But they can not control what is sold to a consumer. I bet your local supply house or hardware stores sell items that do not meet your code. Its that way no matter where you go. The plumbing inspectors can only prevent the items that do not meet code from being installed they can not prevent them from being sold.

    Who is to say someone is buying an AAV for their home here in IL. They might be buying it for their mobile/camper home, or their cottage in Wisconsin, or for a science project.

    As for hooking up to the vent system, I can find a re-vent bar somewhere that I can tie into with out tearing out all the walls in the home. Is it a little extra work? Yes, but it is well worth it. As I said in my other posts an AAV does not work 100% it does not deal with positive pressures in the plumbing system. Which will compromise the trap seals on the fixtures it is serving. Also it is a mechanical device that can and will fail.

    Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
    Another thing about AAV's in IL. If they want to be such harda$$e$ against them, then they should also make it illegal to sell them. I bet you can go into any supply house, or home improvement store in IL. & buy one.

    Sorry we're off topic here everyone.
    Sewer Ratz, If you want to yell at me, on a new thread, I'm all ears.
    Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
    A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
    Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
    Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

  • #2
    Re: Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

    supply houses sell offset closet rings. so does h.d.

    not legal out here.

    same with crack stick

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
      supply houses sell offset closet rings. so does h.d.

      not legal out here.

      same with crack stick

      rick.
      Did you know, the pvc slab flanges are illegal if they are glued inside a 4" pipe?
      I don't know if offset flanges are legal here or not, but if they are legal, they shouldn't be. Only used 1 offset flange ever, in my career, & that was enough.
      Never heard of crack stick either. Sounds like it is for fixing cracks in pvc?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

        Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
        States, counties, and local codes can prohibit certain items being used in the plumbing in the buildings being built in their jurisdiction. But they can not control what is sold to a consumer. I bet your local supply house or hardware stores sell items that do not meet your code. Its that way no matter where you go. The plumbing inspectors can only prevent the items that do not meet code from being installed they can not prevent them from being sold.

        Who is to say someone is buying an AAV for their home here in IL. They might be buying it for their mobile/camper home, or their cottage in Wisconsin, or for a science project.

        As for hooking up to the vent system, I can find a re-vent bar somewhere that I can tie into with out tearing out all the walls in the home. Is it a little extra work? Yes, but it is well worth it. As I said in my other posts an AAV does not work 100% it does not deal with positive pressures in the plumbing system. Which will compromise the trap seals on the fixtures it is serving. Also it is a mechanical device that can and will fail.
        I could not have said that any beter. Yes AAV do not meet coed in IL for homes or buis. but like you said for people like me who own a camper they are instaled in there and because there not a permenit residence and are not built in IL there not built to IL coed.
        SMELLS LIKE $$$$$$ TO ME

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

          Originally posted by post plumber View Post
          I could not have said that any beter. Yes AAV do not meet coed in IL for homes or buis. but like you said for people like me who own a camper they are instaled in there and because there not a permenit residence and are not built in IL there not built to IL coed.
          So if the AAV's don't meet coed reqirements in IL, does that mean they're ok for everyone else that is not in college?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

            I have seen you post something similar in a different thread about positive pressure and AAV's. Isn't there other vents, proper vents, that would relieve that pressure?

            I am not endorsing aav's, they are garbage. Around here they are used for island sinks mostly. Alternative would be a loop vent. But that would have the same negative effects yes?
            My avatar, is every mans wet dream, don't lie. We all know you ride the bedroom moped

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

              All loop vents I come across never had any issues. As for AAV and positive pressure, as I said in another post the AAV manufactures know the positive pressure they make a mechanical expansion chamber to help deal with it, even if there is one vent through to the roof.

              Let me give you an example of positive pressure and an AAV not doing the job of a proper vent system. A Three story building with a common 2" sink line for the kitchen sinks. Third floor sink is vented through the roof, second and first floor sinks have an AAV installed instead of a re-vent. People on the second floor fill both sides of their sink and let it loose. as the slug of water is traveling down the pipe it is creating a negative pressure above it so the AAV on the second floor sink will work, but below the slug there is a positive pressure building up so the AAV is keeping things sealed tight, but the pressure needs to go somewhere so it will cause the first floor sink to gurgle. Same problem happens when the third floor sink is filled and let go but now it will be the second floor sink gurgling.

              I have seen this example first hand and corrected the problem by properly venting the second and first floor sinks.

              Now you are thinking if the AAV manufactures know this is a problem and they do have a solution to the problem with their mechanical air chamber to deal with the positive pressure why not install it to solve the problem. The same reason why an AAV should not be used, it is a mechanical device that is being relied on to make the DWV system work. Mechanical devices can and will fail. Tell me does your code allow a mechanical trap to be used in place of a P-trap?

              Originally posted by Rohten View Post
              I have seen you post something similar in a different thread about positive pressure and AAV's. Isn't there other vents, proper vents, that would relieve that pressure?

              I am not endorsing aav's, they are garbage. Around here they are used for island sinks mostly. Alternative would be a loop vent. But that would have the same negative effects yes?
              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
              Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
              Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

                Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                All loop vents I come across never had any issues. As for AAV and positive pressure, as I said in another post the AAV manufactures know the positive pressure they make a mechanical expansion chamber to help deal with it, even if there is one vent through to the roof.

                Let me give you an example of positive pressure and an AAV not doing the job of a proper vent system. A Three story building with a common 2" sink line for the kitchen sinks. Third floor sink is vented through the roof, second and first floor sinks have an AAV installed instead of a re-vent. People on the second floor fill both sides of their sink and let it loose. as the slug of water is traveling down the pipe it is creating a negative pressure above it so the AAV on the second floor sink will work, but below the slug there is a positive pressure building up so the AAV is keeping things sealed tight, but the pressure needs to go somewhere so it will cause the first floor sink to gurgle. Same problem happens when the third floor sink is filled and let go but now it will be the second floor sink gurgling.

                I have seen this example first hand and corrected the problem by properly venting the second and first floor sinks.

                Now you are thinking if the AAV manufactures know this is a problem and they do have a solution to the problem with their mechanical air chamber to deal with the positive pressure why not install it to solve the problem. The same reason why an AAV should not be used, it is a mechanical device that is being relied on to make the DWV system work. Mechanical devices can and will fail. Tell me does your code allow a mechanical trap to be used in place of a P-trap?
                I have never had a problem, with an an AAV. However I never put one in a multi story bldg, but I'd have a hard time believing that a kitchen sink drain on 2nd floor, could make one below gurgle, due to an AAV, if it had proper size drain,had vent through roof, & was not clogged at all.If its draining 3 kitchens, I would assume it is 3", so it would have to fill that entire drain full, to create pressure.
                We put in backflow devices, which are mechanical, & eventually have to be maintained, or repaired, & you touted about that being extra money for plumbers. Why is this any different? If it fails in a few years, job security right? I've had them in for 10 yrs, with no trouble.
                Also a good example where AAV cannot be used is on a sewage, or laundry tub sump, with pump. Because as you said, it doesn't let air out, only admits air in, thats why its called air admittance valve.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

                  Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
                  I have never had a problem, with an an AAV. However I never put one in a multi story bldg, but I'd have a hard time believing that a kitchen sink drain on 2nd floor, could make one below gurgle, due to an AAV, if it had proper size drain,had vent through roof, & was not clogged at all.If its draining 3 kitchens, I would assume it is 3", so it would have to fill that entire drain full, to create pressure.
                  We put in backflow devices, which are mechanical, & eventually have to be maintained, or repaired, & you touted about that being extra money for plumbers. Why is this any different? If it fails in a few years, job security right? I've had them in for 10 yrs, with no trouble.
                  Also a good example where AAV cannot be used is on a sewage, or laundry tub sump, with pump. Because as you said, it doesn't let air out, only admits air in, thats why its called air admittance valve.

                  So explain to me why do the AAV manufactures make a device to deal with positive pressure. And why am I trying to defend what I been saying here on the forums to a person that does not do plumbing in the state of Illinois? For those that want to see what the Illinois code has to say about AAV's here it is.

                  Section 890.1420 Stack Vents, Vent Stacks, Main Vents
                  a) Design. A properly designed and installed venting system, in conjunction with the soil or waste system, is essential to protect trap seals and prevent siphonage, aspiration, or back pressure. The venting system shall be designed and installed to permit the admission or emission of air so that under normal and intended use the seal of any fixture trap shall never be subjected to a pneumatic pressure differential of more than a one (1) inch water column. If a trap seal is subject to loss by evaporation, means shall be provided to prevent loss of the trap seal. (See Section 890.410(f).)

                  b) Installation. A stack vent, vent stack or a main vent shall be installed with a soil or waste stack whenever back vents, relief vents, or other branch vents are required.'

                  Section 890.1480 Types of Fixture Trap Vents
                  d) Mechanical Vents. Mechanical devices shall not be installed in lieu of vent piping.
                  Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                  A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                  Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                  Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Suppliers Selling Items that does not meet your local code

                    Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                    So explain to me why do the AAV manufactures make a device to deal with positive pressure. And why am I trying to defend what I been saying here on the forums to a person that does not do plumbing in the state of Illinois? For those that want to see what the Illinois code has to say about AAV's here it is.
                    Just tryin to make conversation S.R. I aint critisizing you or IL. codes. You guys are next state over from me. I didn't mean for you to defend anything. I always know what you say, aint no B.S.
                    I never even knew they were making a device for positive pressure, thats why I listen to all you. You knew about it, & you hate the AAV's.
                    I personally would rather run an open air vent too, but I have to install AAV's here, in order to compete.
                    Think IL. would ever consider AAV's if they did manufacture the positive pressure?

                    P.S. Really the only thing I use these AAV's for is Island sinks, & sinks in basements, I don't use them for bathroom groups, but alot of plumbers do.

                    Comment

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