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  • Copper leak

    I got called out to a house a plumbed around three years ago for a leak. I went into the crawlspace and found this pipe was leaking at the port on the right.



    Here is a close up of the leak.



    The manifold is a Sioux Chief manifold. The port that started leaking was the one that had the recirc. line hooked up to it.

    Did that constant water flow cause this to erode away in just under three years? That is sure what it looks like to me, but I wanted an outside opinion.

  • #2
    Re: Copper leak

    Do you want to cut it open and get a better look?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Copper leak

      What kind of recirc Mark?
      Grundfos 24/7

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Copper leak

        It has a Grundfos on it. When I looked at it today, it was set to run 24/7. I thought three years ago I set the timer on it to run for less, but I don't remember for certain.

        I did think about having it cut open, but I think for now it will sit on my shelf just in case I need it for evidence later on.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Copper leak

          I personally think an aquastat on a recirc line is best. No worry about resetting timers, all the time. Seems like every time I go to a job where timers are used, they are bypassed to run 24/7. Put in aquastats for the last few years, & never had any issues.TMO.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Copper leak

            hard to see. is the copper worn thin and leaking or was it the pex crimp joint?

            is that manifold factory soldered or brazed? is it a t-drill joint?

            is the leak from the 1/2'' barbed stub or copper joint?

            have you contacted sioux chief for their opinion

            i always go with a timer and shut off at night time and during the day try 15 on and 15 off. this will cycle the pump enough to keep the water warm if properly insulated. plus 15 on 15 off is 50% run time minus the night time shut off and you're down to 25% run time. then with a small pump, it's pretty gentle on the system.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Copper leak

              Chemical interaction of the piping leaching through the water when it passes through the manifold.
              Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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              • #8
                Re: Copper leak

                i always go with a timer and shut off at night time and during the day try 15 on and 15 off. this will cycle the pump enough to keep the water warm if properly insulated. plus 15 on 15 off is 50% run time minus the night time shut off and you're down to 25% run time. then with a small pump, it's pretty gentle on the system.

                rick.[/QUOTE]

                Very good philosophy there, as usual. As long as the timer is set correctly.
                However due to power outages, or circuits that trip,ect..., these timers will be off. And most customers, find them hard to reset, or never even think about it.
                But even if the timer is off by an hour, it's too late for the morning shower. Then if the timer is off by more than 6, 8, or 12 hrs, which will eventually happen, the pump, in your example, is now off during the day, & running at night. I agree your example is best, if timer is kept at proper time. Unfortunately, atleast for me anyway, so that I don't have call backs, I think the aquastat makes it basically fool proof, (or idiot proof), even though the pump may come on a couple times during the night.
                When they put atomic clocks on these pumps, I will definetely go back to the timer control. TJMO.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Copper leak

                  As the only one of the four that leaked was the one circulating, I suspect the leak was caused by "erosion corrosion." The sudden change of direction at that last fitting, with constant circulation, strips the copper of the thin layer of oxidation, and it decays WAY more quickly. (Think of the nice, clean guardrails along a stretch of straight road, and what the guardrail looks like right at the curve.) I look forward to "comments!"
                  Last edited by Western Reserve; 04-03-2010, 02:18 PM. Reason: correct for better example

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                  • #10
                    Re: Copper leak

                    seems plausible to me...

                    I too use aquastats on recirc lines.

                    Anyone done the motion sensors to turn them on?

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                    • #11
                      Re: Copper leak

                      Originally posted by radar_40 View Post
                      seems plausible to me...

                      I too use aquastats on recirc lines.

                      Anyone done the motion sensors to turn them on?
                      Haven't tried motion sensors yet. Could put one at every fixture in house except toilets huh? Sounds like a 5 minute job

                      But I did wire in a recirc pump one time, into the light switch, in a bathroom, at a friend of mine's store, who's family owned a building supply co. Had a water heater that was on opposite side of bldg. from office bathroom. So when you walked in bathroom, & turned light on, the pump went on, & got the hot water there, while you were doing your duty. By the time you went to wash your hands, you had instant hot water.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Copper leak

                        I like that idea with the lightswitch

                        As I understand the motion sensors, one goes in each lav, and a push button in the kitchen starts a timer for a few minutes.

                        Seems like it'd work well.... but kinda the hard way to do it, especially on a retrofit.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Copper leak

                          By reducing the velocity of flow on the return portion of a circ system you will reduce the cavitating effects.

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