Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

    I was thinking about what Rick said, & how he use to walk the bldgs, when he would install, as many as 400 angle valves, in 1 day, & probobly were more than that in alot of bldg's. So now, lets say, 10 or 15 yrs down the road, all the units are now occupied, & we need a new fixture on the ground level floor, & the angle valves don't shut off. Now what? Other than shutting down & draining the entire bldg.You can't even replace a ballcock. Maybe freeze that little 1" piece of copper sticking out of wall? What if there is a leak in wall, on a solder joint, or a nail gets put through a pipe, major problem right.
    Here in Mich, alot of these apartment bldgs have been turned into condos, so each unit has a different owner, & there is no such thing as a master key, to get into all the units.
    I had the water turned off to 1 of these "former apartments, now condos" bldg, last year to install new water heaters, this was only 12 units. A lady opened up her lav faucet on the 2nd floor, when the water was off, left it open, & went out for a while. I turned the water back on, & her sink filled up & started to overflow. Tenant below came & got me, so I had to turn water back off, & wait for her to come back home. No-one had a key to her condo.
    So I ask this, why do they not make it manditory to install a set of group valves,that are accessible, for each dwelling? This would make it so much easier to service each unit, & save many disasters, throughout the life of the bldg. And I'm talkin ball valves should be required, not those stop & waist junk, with washers, that get brittle & fall, or break off.

    P.S. Can you tell I was in 1 of these bldgs today

  • #2
    Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

    Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
    I was thinking about what Rick said, & how he use to walk the bldgs, when he would install, as many as 400 angle valves, in 1 day, & probobly were more than that in alot of bldg's. So now, lets say, 10 or 15 yrs down the road, all the units are now occupied, & we need a new fixture on the ground level floor, & the angle valves don't shut off. Now what? Other than shutting down & draining the entire bldg.You can't even replace a ballcock. Maybe freeze that little 1" piece of copper sticking out of wall? What if there is a leak in wall, on a solder joint, or a nail gets put through a pipe, major problem right.
    Here in Mich, alot of these apartment bldgs have been turned into condos, so each unit has a different owner, & there is no such thing as a master key, to get into all the units.
    I had the water turned off to 1 of these "former apartments, now condos" bldg, last year to install new water heaters, this was only 12 units. A lady opened up her lav faucet on the 2nd floor, when the water was off, left it open, & went out for a while. I turned the water back on, & her sink filled up & started to overflow. Tenant below came & got me, so I had to turn water back off, & wait for her to come back home. No-one had a key to her condo.
    So I ask this, why do they not make it manditory to install a set of group valves,that are accessible, for each dwelling? This would make it so much easier to service each unit, & save many disasters, throughout the life of the bldg. And I'm talkin ball valves should be required, not those stop & waist junk, with washers, that get brittle & fall, or break off.

    P.S. Can you tell I was in 1 of these bldgs today
    I feel the same.
    Would be great for Buss. if it was required to retro fit them all !
    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

      Have to get it worded into code. Best thing to do would be to get a bug in the ear of the valve manufacturers. Then get them and a few plumbers to lobby your code board and state department of insurance.

      Honestly, most of us have thought of this when we have to service larger places. But when these buildings/dwellings are on paper and the bidding is cutthroat, the valves get cut too.

      J.C.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

        I bet it all has to do with price and cost. Code is minimum... I did some work in a 18 story building where they were able to shut off the water to half of the building at a time but not per unit and not per floor.
        ANYONE CAN TAKE THE HELM WHEN THE SEA IS CALM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          Have to get it worded into code. Best thing to do would be to get a bug in the ear of the valve manufacturers. Then get them and a few plumbers to lobby your code board and state department of insurance.

          Honestly, most of us have thought of this when we have to service larger places. But when these buildings/dwellings are on paper and the bidding is cutthroat, the valves get cut too.

          J.C.
          What's a 3/4" full port valve and 5 minutes of time cost ? HOOEY !
          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

            maybe i'm spoiled. but most of my buildings have valves in the garage to isolate the risers. others i have to shut the building. but i don't shut the building without posted notices to cya.

            only in a real true emergency will i ever shut a building without notice.

            i can freeze pipe if need be and install a valve if need be.

            too many non plumbers playing with valves that i get called on when they damage a valve or flood a unit.

            there's a whole lot to think about when shutting a building. don't want to even think how many pumps were burned up when they shut water to buildings and don't think of turning off the pumps.

            things that non plumbers don't think about

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              maybe i'm spoiled. but most of my buildings have valves in the garage to isolate the risers.
              others i have to shut the building. but i don't shut the building without posted notices to cya.

              only in a real true emergency will i ever shut a building without notice.

              i can freeze pipe if need be and install a valve if need be.

              too many non plumbers playing with valves that i get called on when they damage a valve or flood a unit.

              there's a whole lot to think about when shutting a building. don't want to even think how many pumps were burned up when they shut water to buildings and don't think of turning off the pumps.

              things that non plumbers don't think about

              rick.
              These last few buildings I have been in, don't have attached garages, but thats still not a good idea, to install valves in garages, around here, due to freezing. Also these jobs are tough, when your not familiar with bldg. No-one wants to work in these places.
              This bldg. I was in yesterday, had the handles rotted, & broke off, every angle valve in the place.On top of that, each valve had that white powder buildup around the packing. There was no way I was touching them, without being able to turn water off. Then you gotta put out 40 notices, on peoples doors to replace a faucet, or ballcock in 1 unit. Totally outrageous!

              FYI- I'm not saying Ricks comments are outrageous, just the fact that these places don't have group valves, for servicing the plbg in each unit.
              The people that buy these units, buy them because they're affordable. They don't have the money to pay thousands of dollars for a plumbing repair that should cost about $150.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

                Its been code here longer than i have been plumbing
                Most of the apartments have a cut off in side each unit
                I have one 20 year old complex i work at that has cheep shut offs in the ground that i wont turn..I turn off everyone when i have too there

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

                  Here each unit has to have its own shut-off.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

                    In new construction today, you will usually see what you are asking for. Older apts, and conveted condos, the piping was not necessarily installed such that you could isolate just one unit, even if you wanted to try to do that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why is this not manditory in every multi-family dwelling

                      There should be a main shutoff for each apartment.

                      Of course, I run into all sorts of older buildings here that do not have them. Some do, however, in a laundry room or sometimes even in a crawl space - but you have to crawl to each valve.

                      I ran into a new, three-storey building a while back that had a bunch of valves over the water heater in the apartment, but apparently the apprentices who piped them didn't get them right because shutting off the valves did not shut off water to the hose bibb outside the building next to that apartment, and the main shutoff for the complex was in another apartment. Some people's design ideas are just screwy. First I had to find out which apartment, then I had to find out how to get the tenant there to open the door.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X