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  • #46
    Re: Brass Parts?

    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
    most new feed line connector nuts that are plastic have a couple wings that assist in the hand tight process, but also have a purpose to show the tell tale signs of channel lock scoring.

    even the fluidmaster nut has a couple wings now to prevent over stressing.

    rick.
    "Ok guys, we need a way to design our product cheaper with a smaller window of error AND an indicator built in to show if that window is breached."

    Plastic mounting and coupling nut. Genius business.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Brass Parts?

      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
      I do not work with insurers or investigators as you do, but in my limited experience I find the insurers "going after" whoever they can for reimbursement.

      All parties have experts? Why? Think about that. There should be zero reason for multiple experts. None. An insurer should take the word of the manufacturers expert. Right? And/or a manufacturer should take the word of the insurers expert. Right?

      Why not? They are "experts" in their field of investigation and it would be a complete waste of resources to employ one when another party already has one assuming they are honest and looking for the true cause of things occurring.

      It would seem to defy logic and good business practice unless....a business is able to gain something from employing an "expert".

      I do understand what you're saying and the system (some ). However, investigators and engineers deal in exact in my experience.

      "Hand Tight" has no exact. Until it does, there is no way to assess cause accurately.

      Thanks.

      J.C.
      I think you are missing the point of hand tight. There is no way to measure what the torque value was before the failure as it has already failed. What they are looking for is the structure of the crack and any damage to the nut surface. Most of these failures were over tightened many years before the failure.

      Some nuts are hand tight only, so if you see a wrench mark it is fair to assume it was beyond hand tight. Some nuts are hand tight and a quarter turn so if you see a scratch it's okay if you see a deep gouge in the direction of tightening you know it was over tightened. Now add to that they are looking at the crack under heavy magnification to identify what type of crack it is.

      Everyone has their own expert to protect their own interest. The insurance company is protecting their interest and the manufacturers insurance company is protecting theirs.

      How these things often work is an insurance company may have repaired 30-homes across the country over a period of several years. They then file a suit against all of the manufacturers that can be identified. The manufacturer's insurance company retains a law firm which hires an expert to defend the manufacturer. When the testing is done all of the experts are allowed to watch to make sure proper protocol is followed. As an insured, wouldn't you want your insurance company to hire an expert to protect your interests?

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Brass Parts?

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        I think you are missing the point of hand tight. There is no way to measure what the torque value was before the failure as it has already failed. What they are looking for is the structure of the crack and any damage to the nut surface. Most of these failures were over tightened many years before the failure.

        Some nuts are hand tight only, so if you see a wrench mark it is fair to assume it was beyond hand tight. Some nuts are hand tight and a quarter turn so if you see a scratch it's okay if you see a deep gouge in the direction of tightening you know it was over tightened. Now add to that they are looking at the crack under heavy magnification to identify what type of crack it is.

        Everyone has their own expert to protect their own interest. The insurance company is protecting their interest and the manufacturers insurance company is protecting theirs.

        How these things often work is an insurance company may have repaired 30-homes across the country over a period of several years. They then file a suit against all of the manufacturers that can be identified. The manufacturer's insurance company retains a law firm which hires an expert to defend the manufacturer. When the testing is done all of the experts are allowed to watch to make sure proper protocol is followed. As an insured, wouldn't you want your insurance company to hire an expert to protect your interests?

        Mark
        Absolutely! However, in the way things are today, I'm inclined to believe that my insurer would "hire an expert" to protect THEIR interests.

        Regardless if my interests are at benefit or not.

        J.C.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Brass Parts?

          I'm working with an injured left arm/hand and it's very hard for me to gauge what "hand tight" is at this point.
          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Brass Parts?

            Is that "hand tight" with a cloth glove on or a rubber glove (like I use, which improves my grip) or barehanded?
            From what I gathered from Mark's comments, hand tight is as tight as ANYONE can get it by hand, with no tools. They have engineered a wide tolerance into the nut. I have never heard of anyone being sued for a cracked supply nut. I guess i should get out more often.

            While we are sort of on the subject. How many turns past hand tight should a Schedule 40, 1" pvc female adapter be tightened onto a brass nipple?
            I can't tell you how many I've seen cracked where the water service connects to the city water meter. I remember reading the specs once. Dang that memory course I took....uh, I forgot the name of it.
            "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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            • #51
              Re: Brass Parts?

              Afternoon/Morning guys. Just thought I would through in an Aussie perspective. What we need is people to be responsibleand have some sort of consultatiuon process. Over many years I have gained a gross dislike for the Manufacturers and their warranty process. We are forced to put up with Johnny come lately's who go straight to the Client and state something like "you should have rung us because we are the professionals". Recently had a young girl on the phone tryuing to tell me I had overtightened a trap on a sink and that is why the seal failed. She was p--sed off when I told her I had over thirty years under my belt and it was her cheap products. Insurance companies are also snakes in the grass. They will not enforce penalties on homeowners who carry out their own plumbing and other work because they dont want to get a bad reputation. But the hypocracy is that as professionals holding a license we are lambs waiting to be slaughtered. Another fine example is I was in teh Magistrates Court for a roofing job. The Magistrate, Female of course, allowed adn based her findings on the evidence of a Landscape Architect as to whether we had installed the roof and gutters. THis guy had no license, never installed a roof or gutter in his life, and was an expert. What an absolute travisty of Justice. So guys the system is broken. The Insurance Companies dont want to fix it because then they wouldnt have anything to do. Assessors wouldnt have jobs. They couldnt put up premiums. Just look at how these filthy companies work. They make squillions of dollars and pay out how much. There is a fantastic example over here at the moment where a Parliamentary Inquiry intoHome Builders found less than 9% of premiums was paid back in claims. Finally to pick upo on a point from the engineer there will always be two ways of looking at a claim. The Insurance Companies will ALWAYS deny responsibility as too will the Manufacturers.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Brass Parts?

                Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
                Not to mention, ANYONE could have come in after you and put another turn on the nut. (Especially if they want new carpet and floors).
                Not just anyone.
                I know the guy,I've seen him do it.Bad guy.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Brass Parts?

                  Thanks everyone.

                  Regardless of what's "hand tight" or if someone would be found at fault for over-tightening, it would seem that the best solution and removal of liability is metallic shank, mounting nut, and connections.

                  Right? Wrong?

                  Thanks.

                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Brass Parts?

                    Did this one the other day. That's a Pro45B but, of course, the husky wing nut that comes with it would not fit it that recess. I thought of J.C. as I used that brass nut and tightened it with my tub socket.

                    Anyway, not very interesting but everyone was complaining about how slow the forum was on the other thread so I thought I would give you something to look at.
                    Attached Files
                    "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Brass Parts?

                      What's interesting is in the eye of the beholder. And that was very interesting to me.

                      Smart use of the mirror.

                      J.C.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Brass Parts?

                        I called Wolverine Brass to get the parts I want. They gave me the number of the area rep. I hate that stuff. Call this person and they'll call us.

                        I know what I want and I'm already talking to you.

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Brass Parts?

                          I don't understand why they would do that. I always order over the phone with the main office.

                          Since you are obviously a connoisseur of fine photography (or pictures of shoddy plumbing), I am posting more for your Thursday night enjoyment (plus, it just happens to be apropos to your original post.

                          This is the 3rd such FM 400a that I have seen do this. Needless to say, when the toilet started running the homeowner lifted the lid and LIFTOFF! Straight to the ceiling. There was residue of an old chlorine tablet in the tank.
                          Attached Files
                          "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Brass Parts?

                            Wow. Thanks. Haven't ran into one of those. I have seen the plastic slip ring not hold for whatever reason and jack the top end up against the lid.

                            Did the chlorine turn the stem white?

                            Good pics. Waiting for more videos though.

                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Brass Parts?

                              Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post

                              Good pics. Waiting for more videos though.

                              J.C.
                              J.C. check your inbox
                              "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Brass Parts?

                                Rick your out in Cal. have you ever used any of these or seen any fail ?
                                Attached Files

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