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Angle Stop Woes

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  • #16
    Re: Angle Stop Woes

    Thanks for the information. They are going to ask for the stop. I would save one of the failed ones for myself though.

    Just in case.

    J.C.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Angle Stop Woes

      Originally posted by NoeEttica View Post
      I wonder if someone counterfeited these in Hong Kong ?

      I own some Counterfeit goods and I gotta tell 'Ya they are very hard to Tell !!!
      I tell you what's got me pissed though. Think about how in the last 30 years how fast information is exchanged, discoveries made, and things can be brought to production.

      With all of that, many are making things of ever decreasing quality. Think about how damm sorry that is. In a time when things can be learned faster than ever, what's good & bad, right or wrong, you end up with more junk.

      Pisses me off when I pull a 5lb. solid brass American Standard lavatory faucet from the 50's and replace it with a 1lb. China made Delta, American Standard, Kohler etc.

      I'm not stupid (sometimes), I know that the inferior-product-turnover gives me more contact labor. But I can't help recognizing the backwards engineering of the whole thing. Embarrassing to whoever is sitting at the CAD table.

      Ah well, time to go replace the 20 year old fill valve with a good ol' Fluidmaster that will fail in 5 years. Less if you don't "hand tighten" it all.

      J.C.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Angle Stop Woes

        My favorite is "this is the first time we have ever heard of this happening"
        There was a faucet company by the name of Artistic Brass, and they were having problems with their ceramic disc stems on the cold side only. Every time I would contact them to see about a replacement stem I would hear this line. Then I would remind them that this was my 10th faucet call on this issue and they would send me the part.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Angle Stop Woes

          I know I've seen the metal breakdown like in picture 4. Kind of reddish-brown & a flaky crust. Anyone know of a metallurgist that wants to volunteer the makeup of that stem?

          I will NOT believe what the manufacture says about it.

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Angle Stop Woes

            i just shut the whole house down. been doing it for years. stops have always been junk. those little chrome suckers are a whole lot cheaper than a plain old brass valve. wonder why? breid....................

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Angle Stop Woes

              Originally posted by NoeEttica View Post
              I wonder if someone counterfeited these in Hong Kong ?

              I own some Counterfeit goods and I gotta tell 'Ya they are very hard to Tell !!!
              A very interesting topic which I have read articles about. For those of you who don't know there are some very crafty Asian outfits that have reversed engineered and copied American products so closely that the American companies have even repaired the counterfeits without realizing what they were. The counterfeited products were so exact that they were nearly indistinguishable.

              Other cases involved entire plan sets being stolen for American manufacturing plants in China. A "ghost" plant would be built from the ground up and produce the exact same product - entirely unknown to the American company.

              Lastly, there were instances where a "ghost work crew" would come into the American plant in China and produce the product during a night shift without the American company knowing anything about it.

              Did I say "crafty".

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Angle Stop Woes

                i guess it's time to rewrite the company literature.

                "Blow-out Proof, Plated Stem
                Assembled from the inside with double o-rings to ensure safe, reliable performance. Resists corrosion and provides easy, on-off operation even after long periods of time."


                i can tell you from 35 years of working with brasscraft valves. there are some products that were complete failures. such as their pre ball valve 1/4 turn angle stops from the mid 80's. these were suppose to be the newest greatest product to come their way. turns out it was the biggest flop and liability to ever come from them. unfortunately there are hundreds of thousands of these valves out there.

                glad you brought this to our attention and looking forward to what brasscraft has to say about the failure. i can already hear it, bad water chemistry never bad design

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Angle Stop Woes

                  I heard from Tim, an engineer at Brasscraft, this morning.

                  We discussed what occurred and here is the consensus:

                  Yes, there was a problem and they have made adjustments to correct the issue since.

                  The problem was with the formulation of brass they were using. It was prone to "de-zincafication". This is a process that can occur in certain areas of the US (he mentioned the Southwest) where given certain water qualities the zinc is actually chemically stripped out of the brass - leaving predominantly copper behind. This is consistent with the deterioration and reddish color I saw with the exposed brass.

                  He mentioned I may have already heard about this occurring with PEX brass fittings in Las Vegas.

                  He told me the formula of brass they switched to a few years ago will no longer suffer from the de-zincafication.

                  I asked him to provide the date code type information so that we can track whether a KT series angle stop is pre- the corrective brass formula change or post. He said he would get back to me with this information.

                  I asked him how long the KT series has been on the market and he said about 8 years.

                  Based on this information I can conclude that the brass formula used for the first few years of the KT series was susceptible to the de-zincafication in areas possessing a particular water quality - for sure certain areas within the Southwest United States.

                  I will post the date code information as soon as I get it from Brasscraft.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Angle Stop Woes

                    so it is water chemistry and they're aware of it.

                    do they recommend you change all the stops in your area with this type of water. and if so, are they responsible for the charges?

                    thanks for the heads up and follow up

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Angle Stop Woes

                      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                      Too much Zinc. Wondering...

                      J.C.
                      Toldja'.

                      J.C.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Angle Stop Woes

                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                        so it is water chemistry and they're aware of it.

                        do they recommend you change all the stops in your area with this type of water. and if so, are they responsible for the charges?

                        thanks for the heads up and follow up

                        rick.
                        Kind of....but also kind of B.S. These manufacturers KNOW what they are doing. When copper went through the roof on the market they started backing out that percentage and increasing the zinc percentage. In short, they made THEIR CHEMISTRY inferior on purpose and now want to conveniently blame the water chemistry.

                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Angle Stop Woes

                          I had exactly the same valve in my own house, and exactly the same thing happened.

                          I tried to contact brasscraft by mail and email...I had pics that looked just like yours. They never responded.

                          I noticed that the innards of their KT valves seem to be all plastic now,including the stem, at least here in no-lead California!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Angle Stop Woes

                            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                            Kind of....but also kind of B.S. These manufacturers KNOW what they are doing. When copper went through the roof on the market they started backing out that percentage and increasing the zinc percentage. In short, they made THEIR CHEMISTRY inferior on purpose and now want to conveniently blame the water chemistry.

                            J.C.
                            Oh crap,
                            So these have been being put on the same houses that have been having problems with dezinctification.





                            Zurn-Pex


                            Here we go again.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Angle Stop Woes

                              i have both the older ones and newer no lead ones. i'll try to see inside if there's a visual difference.

                              i think by bringing it up on this forum, brasscraft will have to respond to our concerns.

                              they need to inform us about their brass problems and give us the fix along with the code dates that are affected.

                              is this just an issue if you have the wrong water chemistry like vegas had with it's brass fittings. i believe it affects 14% of the population, waters supply

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Angle Stop Woes

                                i only install dahl angle stops because of this...tried the rest and if its not the handle breaking the ball is mia.some guys i know will not pay the extra $1.25 for a decent angle stop knowing they will be back in a couple years to replace.maybe there on to somthing but i rely on word of mouth so i got to go with wat i trust.by the way proflo is the bigest peice on the planet (angle stops only).

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