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Thank You SOLAR!!!

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  • Thank You SOLAR!!!

    It is another beautiful sunny day in the Grand Valley. My solar has already kicked on and it is another day of nearly free hot water. That's a good deal for a family of four.

  • #2
    Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

    Boy I envy you. I had a nice long hot shower this morning, the wife soaked in her jacuzzi, ran the dishwasher, put a turkey in the oven and threw a load of wash in the dryer. By the end of the day I will probably spend $1.50 in gas. Oh wait, you probably don't cook food or dry clothes with solar so I will have to adjust my non-solar expenditure to $1.00.

    I think solar is great but I just don't see the cost savings yet. There was a time San Diego County would not let you build without solar water heating. Before long the costs were so ridiculous to maintain and offset they had to drop the requirement.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

      lets see

      my monthly gas bill non winter months is around $9.00

      i hate to think what i would save in the long run with solar

      i can think of only 1 customer that still has a working solar heater.

      unless you're a commercial uses of large volumes of hot water, i don't see a savings.

      the early 70's had a large tax credit. no tax credit, no savings ever.

      solar power is getting more popular, but once again. it's all tax credits.

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

        I've ran the numbers before for Solar, Geothermal, and Tankless. Never found a real savings.

        Remember that you have to include EVERYTHING. Installation, maintenance, and the lost investment income % that any extra costs for these systems could be earning.

        J.C.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
          lets see

          my monthly gas bill non winter months is around $9.00

          i hate to think what i would save in the long run with solar

          i can think of only 1 customer that still has a working solar heater.

          unless you're a commercial uses of large volumes of hot water, i don't see a savings.

          the early 70's had a large tax credit. no tax credit, no savings ever.

          solar power is getting more popular, but once again. it's all tax credits.

          rick.
          You suck. It costs me $15.00 just to have service. If I go outside and cut the meter off on January 1, leave it off for the full year, it would cost me $180.00.

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

            I wish my gas company was so cheap. $11.00 to be a customer and about a $1.25 per therm. So on water alone I am saving about $60 per month. I have also hooked it to my infloor system, so the winter savings are even better. On average it has saved about $1,000.00 per year. That leaves some room to maintain the system and I don't see any real change on my electric bill to run the pumps. I also have 2 kids and a wife that don't know a light switch works both ways.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

              Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
              It is another beautiful sunny day in the Grand Valley. My solar has already kicked on and it is another day of nearly free hot water. That's a good deal for a family of four.
              do you have pictures of the panels and piping ,i would love to see it .i will post pictures of a system i put in
              Charlie

              My seek the peek fundraiser page
              http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


              http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

              new work pictures 12/09
              http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

                Speaking of Therm savings.

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K87jD...eature=related

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxFrnoSLmTw&NR=1

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1rgS...eature=related

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rol2H...eature=related

                "Therm - The Wise Guy" was one of my Webelos Scouts 25-years ago or so.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

                  Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                  do you have pictures of the panels and piping ,i would love to see it .i will post pictures of a system i put in
                  I don't have pics as they would not make much sense. The system is layed by 3 levels and adapted to my 1936 Victorian home. The basic concept is to provide pre heat to domestic water first. So there is a 50gal. Stor-Ex side arm that I stainless welded the coil back in place. This is tied by coil directly to the panels. The volume of the tank is preheat domestic water. This continues until the holding tank reaches 120F then a recirc pump moves the water between the water heater and the solar collector tank. Some days I will see both tanks reach 186F.

                  The return of the solar panel also goes through a flat plate heat exchanger, that in turn links back to the secondary return of the boiler. This is all controlled by a differential solar controler and set direction of flow by zone valves. So the end result is when the return of the infloor is lower than the return of the solar, the system also preheats the return water to the boiler.

                  I made a fast CAD of the system to better show how it works but it will not upload. As for the panels, they are 4X10 flat plate glazed. They are piped to run either parallel or series depending on the temp. gain required for best performance.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

                    we just had our 1st real test for non-direct sun days. beginning around 3PM on thursday the clouds came in and there has not been one solid hour of direct sunshine at my house since then. top it off with rather high winds and a lot of COLD rain. anout 18,000 gals aded tothe cistern. while not scalding hot the water is hot enough that i can't run it straight. gotta mix some cold. yeaterday i went on the roof and the recirculating line was too hot to hold but for a few seconds.

                    our last month drop in the electric bill (including a small rate increase) was around 24%

                    the only gas here is propane so virtually everyone has electric hot water or solar

                    congrats Kevin
                    In the never ending struggle to keep the water flowing.... The Poo Poo Cowboy rides again!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

                      Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post

                      I made a fast CAD of the system to better show how it works but it will not upload. As for the panels, they are 4X10 flat plate glazed. They are piped to run either parallel or series depending on the temp. gain required for best performance.
                      Kevin,

                      Try this. Get a picture of the CAD drawing on your screen. Simultaneously press the Ctrl key, and Prt Scr key. Next go to the "paint" program. Paste the image into the "Paint" program. Then save it as a JPG image. Upload the JPG image to this thread. (It might just work)
                      Time flies like an arrow.

                      Fruit flies like a banana.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

                        Still could not get the CAD to roll over. So I just did a very quick paint sketch. I am not showing all pumps, valves, check valves...only the general concept.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

                          Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                          Still could not get the CAD to roll over. So I just did a very quick paint sketch. I am not showing all pumps, valves, check valves...only the general concept.
                          Did House Plumber draw that for you?
                          Just messin with ya.
                          But seriously, how much do you think it would cost, if you put this same system you have, in a customers house? Think about all the adjustments, & tweeking you had to do, all the trips back out to job, the engineering, & come up with a ballpark price. Then tell me how long before the customer sees a savings. I know you got floor heat too, but I still can't see it being economical.
                          Protech posted some pictures of solar panels & piping jobs, that look like they cost more than the house they served. JMO.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

                            Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
                            Did House Plumber draw that for you?
                            Just messin with ya.
                            But seriously, how much do you think it would cost, if you put this same system you have, in a customers house? Think about all the adjustments, & tweeking you had to do, all the trips back out to job, the engineering, & come up with a ballpark price. Then tell me how long before the customer sees a savings. I know you got floor heat too, but I still can't see it being economical.
                            Protech posted some pictures of solar panels & piping jobs, that look like they cost more than the house they served. JMO.
                            I would estimate the entire job from scratch and all new...including design, engineering, and final adjustments to be around $7,000. So at the rate I am saving it would take with maintance figured about 8 years to payback. That boils down to earning around 9% interest on your investment. In the current financial world that is not a bad pay back. That is also assuming that rates don't go up...which we know they will.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Thank You SOLAR!!!

                              Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                              I would estimate the entire job from scratch and all new...including design, engineering, and final adjustments to be around $7,000. So at the rate I am saving it would take with maintance figured about 8 years to payback. That boils down to earning around 9% interest on your investment. In the current financial world that is not a bad pay back. That is also assuming that rates don't go up...which we know they will.
                              Last I read the average move for people in the U.S. was every 5 to 7 years.

                              J.C.

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