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MANABLOC Water Distribution System

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  • #16
    Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

    Do you do many re-pipes JC ?

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    • #17
      Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

      Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
      Do you do many re-pipes JC ?
      I'd like to think I've done my share. Mine are typically on my back in "Cotton Candy Land". If you have basements, you're in Disney World.

      J.C.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

        It's like a whole new world for me . Getting all these inspections every other job I get something new from the inspector you have to do this or that. I think it is great thou. Last week he asks me if the pro press female adapt. pop off like shark bites? I tell him no after you press it on you are done and would have to cut it off and throw it away. He says well you have to start installing unions. I said back to him WOW I have installed tons and tons of heaters with out unions just copper female adapt and hooked up what ever I needed to do. He tells me well don't you think it is a good idea so you can change out the heater faster next time or service it down the road? I think he thought I was changeling him on it? I told him I thought it was a good idea and this is great getting all the feed back as I have been calling in inspections on all my work and told him he is going to get rid of all my bad learned habits! And that I guess when I put permit on the ticket it was either not done or no inspection scheduled he laughed. You sound right on JC this is how I had to do my gas job with the pro-press I would just hate to tell the customer they will have to wait 24 hrs and after the inspection to be able to use their plumbing but I guess this is how real law abiding plumbers work and people should be able to understand unless they want and extra hole next to each pipe penetration!
        Last edited by Clipper City Plumber; 05-31-2010, 12:01 AM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

          I grew up in a mobile home and after my boss found that out I always got sent on any crawl space jobs! Thats were cargo pockets and a good army crawl technique comes in handy

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

            Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
            It's like a whole new world for me . Getting all these inspections every other job I get something new from the inspector you have to do this or that. I think it is great thou. Last week he asks me if the pro press female adapt. pop off like shark bites? I tell him no after you press it on you are done and would have to cut it off and throw it away. He says well you have to start installing unions. I said back to him WOW I have installed tons and tons of heaters with out unions just copper female adapt and hooked up what ever I needed to do. He tells me well don't you think it is a good idea so you can change out the heater faster next time or service it down the road? I think he thought I was changeling him on it? I told him I thought it was a good idea and this is great getting all the feed back as I have been calling in inspections on all my work and told him he is going to get rid of all my bad learned habits! And that I guess when I put permit on the ticket it was either not done or no inspection scheduled he laughed. You sound right on JC this is how I had to do my gas job with the pro-press I would just hate to tell the customer they will have to wait 24 hrs and after the inspection to be able to use their plumbers but I guess this is how real law abiding plumbers work and people should be able to understand unless they want and extra hole next to each pipe penetration!
            Some inspectors are great and others are knuckleheads. Probably like anything else in life. Code is code. If your local code has a written policy requiring unions on water heaters, then that's what has to be done.

            If it is not written then it cannot be enforced. An inspector is not supposed to be allowed that degree of interpretation.

            But sometimes you have to ask yourself, do you want to be right or do you want to make money? Have to weigh the cost benefit. If I'm off the chain busy I might throw them in just to get out of there. Don't have time for the phone calls.

            Or I might make him/her admit their wrong. Some will say don't piss off the inspector but I disagree. I get no slack either way so I give none.

            On a side note, the union thing to me is such round-and-round, I'm right/you're wrong, theoretical B.S. Water heaters fail quicker than ever so that connection percentage wise will be changed time and again before it gives a problem.

            And saying to make it easier to service and change out is nuts too. Like I'm gonna' show up to a water heater all pissed 'cause it doesn't have unions.

            I can't remember the last one I changed that had unions.

            J.C.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

              I hear ya but I am just getting in with these guys and don't want to step on toes. I can read a code book and I don't want to get in to a pissing contest maybe when I am in your position but not while I am still the new kid on the block. They have a poster on the wall in the inspection office "arguing with a plumbing inspector is like wrestling with a pig in mud I will live by that till I have gone thru all inspections and get to know every body and then just jump over them to the chief and make my case he is pretty cool. But for now this will work. this inspector has work with me so far . how much room do these manifolds take up in width ?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

                Originally posted by Clipper City Plumber View Post
                I hear ya but I am just getting in with these guys and don't want to step on toes. I can read a code book and I don't want to get in to a pissing contest maybe when I am in your position but not while I am still the new kid on the block. They have a poster on the wall in the inspection office "arguing with a plumbing inspector is like wrestling with a pig in mud I will live by that till I have gone thru all inspections and get to know every body and then just jump over them to the chief and make my case he is pretty cool. But for now this will work. this inspector has work with me so far . how much room do these manifolds take up in width ?
                I have no idea. Why do you want to do a manifold over traditional?

                Thanks.

                J.C.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

                  Time tacking up 5 1/2" lines and pressing in 8-5' sections of 1/2" pex I think will be quicker than a bunch of tees and cheaper than copper. and having the manifold right there I think will make it quicker then laying out tees. And I have never put one in and want to test drive the system not like it is a four and half bath house with a wet bar and 5 hose bibs .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

                    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                    Some inspectors are great and others are knuckleheads. Probably like anything else in life. Code is code. If your local code has a written policy requiring unions on water heaters, then that's what has to be done.

                    If it is not written then it cannot be enforced. An inspector is not supposed to be allowed that degree of interpretation.

                    But sometimes you have to ask yourself, do you want to be right or do you want to make money? Have to weigh the cost benefit. If I'm off the chain busy I might throw them in just to get out of there. Don't have time for the phone calls.

                    Or I might make him/her admit their wrong. Some will say don't piss off the inspector but I disagree. I get no slack either way so I give none.

                    On a side note, the union thing to me is such round-and-round, I'm right/you're wrong, theoretical B.S. Water heaters fail quicker than ever so that connection percentage wise will be changed time and again before it gives a problem.

                    And saying to make it easier to service and change out is nuts too. Like I'm gonna' show up to a water heater all pissed 'cause it doesn't have unions.

                    I can't remember the last one I changed that had unions.

                    J.C.
                    The only reason I can think of to have unions on a water heater, & actually use them, would be to inspect or change, anode rod, or dip tube. We are required to use dielectric unions here.
                    I also love it, when the shut off valve is installed right on top of the dielectric union. You can shut the heater off, but can't do anything else without replacing shut off. I mean, I always replace the valve anyway, unless it's a ball valve already. But I would rather have the shut off 20ft away, than 2" above dielectric union.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

                      I usually cut the existing unions off anyway.
                      And, the concept of servicing a tanked water heater is foreign out here, I tell people about that when I install a new one, but I won't hear back from them. so I think the unions are pretty well a waste, Bradfords have Dielectric nipples in them already.

                      The manabloc is a neat concept but you end up with a lot of extra pipe, and you have to wait for the cold water to run out of the hot line on every fixture, instead of just waiting on the sink, then the shower has nearly instant hot water.
                      No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

                        Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
                        I usually cut the existing unions off anyway.
                        And, the concept of servicing a tanked water heater is foreign out here, I tell people about that when I install a new one, but I won't hear back from them. so I think the unions are pretty well a waste, Bradfords have Dielectric nipples in them already.

                        The manabloc is a neat concept but you end up with a lot of extra pipe, and you have to wait for the cold water to run out of the hot line on every fixture, instead of just waiting on the sink, then the shower has nearly instant hot water.
                        Yep, I've seen the manifolds installed in new houses,(which I refer to as the homerun system, like sparkies call it), where each supply goes back to manifold seperately. Ok if you install a Hot water return line. But most don't. Why? Cuz if you install Pex you want cheapest way. So multiple fixtures in same room, have to wait for hot water to come from manifold, or block, on each. Some of these runs I see are easily 60ft or more each.

                        I agree too, that unions on a water heater, are about as useful, as wet toiletpaper.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

                          The unions will add $16 to the jobs . I hear yea with the valves I run into that all the time you have to love it when you have the ex. tank , ice maker valve and shut off valve all on the cold side and right on top of the heater I think the idea of taking pex up would be quicker than teeing every thing in . The manifold system with 1-1/4" passage and smaller lines according to viega is going to deliver hot water faster since their is less water in the pipe but point well taken on that every fixture has its on branch line it would almost act as a tankless less the sandwich effect. However when a few fixtures are in use at the same time this system is designed to have the most balanced flow better than trunk&branch and remote manifold . It is double the pipe but smaller pipe and flexible pipe . It must be a lot like pulling electric wires down to a breaker box?

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                          • #28
                            Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

                            Over 90% of the newer homes out here have Manablocs installed. A Manabloc is designed to fit in between two studs 16" on center. You will also take up the stud bays on either side to run your water lines through so you don't put stress on the block.

                            My personal opinion is I don't like them. In my own house, my kitchen sink is about 10 feet away from my water heater, but because of the Manabloc, my hot water travels about 100 feet before it makes it to the kitchen sink. My front loading washing machine is about 5 feet from my water heater, but has to go that same 100 feet. I don't think I ever get hot water when I wash my clothes.

                            The builders and plumbers out here love them because they can have the dumbest, cheapest guy on staff run all the water lines, with a very low chance of him screwing it up. They install very fast, but they are a horrible choice for a large home. The few I have installed were in small homes with all the plumbing close together, and they work ok for that. I don't think they worked better then the traditional method, but the homeowners wanted Manablocs, so that's what I gave them.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

                              well this is a small home one bath room up stairs on 2nd floor about a 50 foot run. the rest of the fixtures will be with in 5 to 8 feet of the block. This is a block wall it will be mounted on no studs. Have you used it for re-pipes ? Does it make the job any faster? Thanks

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: MANABLOC Water Distribution System

                                I have used them on repipes, and I don't think it was much faster for me. Based on the house you are describing, it sounds like a coin flip situation. You will spend a little more on pipe, but get the savings by only having a handful of fittings.

                                As a repair plumber, I hate them because when I go to service a toilet for instance, I have to find where they hid the Manabloc to turn the water off. Then after I fix the toilet, I go and turn the water back on. Now if there is a leak or something caught in the fill valve, or whatever, it's back through the house I go. Not a huge deal, but not as easy as just reaching under the toilet for the shut off valve.

                                I have also been in many homes around ten years old that had significant water damage due to the washer leaking on the hot side inlet of the Manabloc. Easy enough to fix, but the leak wouldn't have happened with the traditional method of install.

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