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Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

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  • #31
    Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

    Sounds like delayed ignition to me. The gas is flowing but its not being ignited.....then BAM it ignites. I'd throw that mofo away as in replace it sir.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

      Banner carries them I believe. I looked into them not long ago. Even with the buffer tank you barely get 7 GPM at 85 degree rise.

      State has a slightly smaller unit that has a similar design.

      I have sold a couple State Premier power vent heaters. Those are the real deal. No need to run a new gas line. 92% efficiency

      All of these numbers are coming from my ear. I just worked my 8th consecutive 12 hr day and have another for tomorrow. I'm too lazy to look up the numbers.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

        Originally posted by mikevanunen View Post
        Mike, Im Mike too. I am having the same problem with a gu32 I instaled begining of this year. Worked perfect, wonderful! Until it started exploiding really loud. Did you ever figure out how to resolve? I bet I have 5o hours of labor in trying to get this problem resolved and getting no where! When it first started acting up I shut it down and called tech support to get a tech guy to come out. The nearest on was like 90 miles away and could not make it for a week. I have been plumbing for 18 years, licensed since 1996 and found the gu32 hybrid was easy to instal. It has been nothing but a nightmare trying to fix it for me and my customer. Problem has been going on for 4 months! Tech support keeps sending me new parts to try that dion't fix the problem. A tech guy finaly shows up and tells my customer he is going to make a report and that the warranty will probably be voided because of instalation errors! My customer calls me and I get this joker on the phone. He sais I only ran one vent and the unit requires two! So I told him to draw an X where he thinks this second vent should go. He got it mixexd up for another unit he addmitted later, but told my customer I failed to instal a condensate tube on the vent. My verticle run is less then 5 feet and clearly states it is not necesary. List goes on and on of things this guy was saying is vallid reason for warranty to be void. By the time he left (After I spoke with him and he had some time to "re think") He sais "Sorry, nothing you did wrong is causing this to exploid or void your warranty, but it's all fixed now, it just needed presure adjusment. i hung up the phone as I had my customer calling,,, he said tech guy just drove off,,, the heater exploided before he made it out the driveway... I don't want any more of those guys coming to my house anymore Mike, I want you to fix it." I gave up on tech support and got a hold of the people who sold the water heater,,, confort USA. What a relief to hear they where going to see that I get shipped a replacement. This problem continues to get worse and worse,,, it shakes the house several times a day as it exploids! It has been over a week since I spoke to the guy at confort USA. I got one email saying he was sorry, he hasnt had a chance to get started on it yet, but will soon. In the mean time, I can't quite hear it go off from my house a mile away, but I have lost more sleep then my customer as now my reputation of a "word of mouth plumber" is damaged because I recomended my customer to buy this unit and I put it in for him and allthough I only charged him 6 hours of labor out of my pending aprrox 50+ hours of time that I will never get paid for, I'm still the plumber who's customer has had to put up with an exploiding water heater for 4+ months. His maids refuse to clean the house,,, thats how loud and scary this thing is!
        After searching hours for someone else who had this problem I finaly found one person,,, (This other guy named mike) I will follow up on the results and outcome of this on going disaster when it gets resolved... until then, I wouldnt be too quick to put one of these units in,,, especially if your name is MIKE! These things come with a 20 year warranty but after 4 months this thing still continues to exploid more and more frequently. My customer is irate as he paid 3 thousand dollars on this thing and ask me everyy day when is it going to be fixed! I spent over 400 dollars just on parts because of this problem ex-having to re pipe and put a used traditional unit in and a week later putting the eternal back in so the tech guy could fix it. I had to buy a 180 manometer tool which I have never needed in all my years experience nor plan on ever using again. I put in spring valves and took out the check valves. I checked the presures 3 times,, each time it was with in spec Then the tech guy said he adjusted it and fixed it and when I explain to eternal tech a new guy wants me to check this again and call him back later. The unit worked flawless for 4 months with the same propane pipe, tanks, regulators, etc,,, all new and double checked. I changed the regulator valve on the unit, the burner, I checked every water flow meter and filter and screen, shut the pump off, turn it on, no matter what I do it keeps getting worse.
        !!!1

        This makes me nervous.

        Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
        If you look at the flow rate on these, they are no better than a standard tankless unit. I had a lady insist on one of these for her 4 bathroom home which all 4 showers do get used at once. I tried to explain to her it will not work, unless she install multiple units. I told her she best call someone else since she did not want to listen to me.

        I refuse to install a system I know that is undersized, no matter how much the home owner wants it installed. She tried to argue with me the pro's of the unit and that she researched everything there is to know about them. She refused to listen to the facts that the units max GPM would not meet her needs, and that gas supply piping would need to be upgraded and a new vent has to be ran. She was under the impression the 1/2" gas supply that works for her current 75 gallon heater would be fine.

        Now one other problem around here is I can not find a local supplier that carries these units. This concerns me as well, what if the unit needs some sort of parts and such.
        I think that there are a few in Chicago. A couple contractors that I know are on the contractor "finder" map in chicago. I will call them and get their input.




        It seems that there are still going to be some borderline issues with cold incoming water. I notice that no one from very far north is an advocate.


        I have a customer with 3 bathrooms, laundry and dishwasher. Possible for 3 simultaneous showers. I looked at eternal, but have been suggesting the State Premier Power Vent. My only concern is the make up air as the heater is in a mechanical closet in an occupied garden/lower level next to the kitchen and with a 110K BTU furnace right next to it. Have been considering direct vent.

        They have electric now, so anything we do is going to be involved to get to a gas heater.


        I'd like to hear from someone up north. But I do like the technology.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

          I have installed 12 Eternal heaters and have had problems with 11 of them. I have installed about the same number of Rinnai heaters and have never had 1 problem. I have been in business 32 yrs
          and have had just about every plumbing problem that can happen but these Eternal heaters are over the top bad. Tech support is not good it takes hours to get through to them and 99% of the time does not solve the problem. I wish I could say better things sorry but they are a nightmare.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

            sounds like scale build up to me.
            Originally posted by Mike234 View Post
            My Eternal Hybrid works really well and saves me about 50.00 a month vs my 50 gal gas water heater. I have two and a half bathrooms, one washing machine and a dishwasher. I do have one problem with the unit that after one year of trouble free use the unit started occasionally backfiring which is extremely loud. The pop or explosions do not affect the hot water supply but are really a problem. I removed and cleaned all four flame rods with no change. I have the unit supplied with a one inch gas line reduced to 3/4 at the machine. This happens randomly weather other appliances are in use or not. Any suggestions?
            Mike
            Clark County Plumbing And Drain
            www.plumbinginclarkcounty.com

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

              I don't think they make the GU32 anymore. That was an 86% heater. I have installed 2 GU195 and 1 GU145 and have had good luck with them. I am not a fan of tankless but they are better than the others I have installed.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

                I know just about everything there is to know about these units. I live near the headquarters and have been involved with them for a while now. I have had a couple of the Gu32 units make this waffling booming noise. It is possible that it is the gas valve and the control board that need to be replaced. They may have sent you those parts, but they may have not sent you the updated ones. What is happening, is the control board regulates the gas valve to maintain the temperature. The unit usually works with very little sound while using it, but when you shut everything off and the unit cools down it will come on in a very low fire situation to just heat up the tank. This is usually the loudest. Against Tech support, I found changing, the flow sensor, the control board and the gas valve solved this problem. There is also a setting on the gas valve that you can adjust for low fire. I use the manometer to get me in the right area, but some of them I just use my ear. If you have been doing this for a while, then you know what a good clean burning burner sounds like. I know there are a lot of haters about tankless, and I work on a lot of different brands, but the tanks aren't getting any better. I am a big Eternal fan and a Bradfordwhite fan. I let the customer decide which way to go. The new Bradfordwhites and other brands now have a circuit board in them. The tanks are entering into the electronic ring and will no longer be as reliable, in my opinion. If we went back to the old 1953 nickel tanks that were out, we would all be crying and without work. If you don't want to learn how to properly size gas, use a manometer, read the manufacturers instructions, take classes on how to fix tankless, then I suggest you not put them in. I am constantly learning about Plumbing, Trying to be cutting edge without getting cut, and I do know one thing. When I think I know everything there is to know, or I refuse to learn anymore, It will be time for me to Retire.
                "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

                  I install Bradford White tank Units. This allows Me to sleep at Night! If I go back ,it's for another project ,and New Money.
                  If I wanted to run a day care,I'd have to get a different License !
                  I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

                    Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                    I install Bradford White tank Units. This allows Me to sleep at Night! If I go back ,it's for another project ,and New Money.
                    If I wanted to run a day care,I'd have to get a different License !
                    No issues yet with the ICON valve Yet? I have had 3 boards go out already, a pilot generator fail, and one thermostat probe already fail. I love Bradfordwhite, and for speed reasons, would rather just install Tanked. You would have to see what we are dealing with here in North Texas. 2-50 gallon gas water heaters upstairs, then pull down the attic door, go up and there they are. Just today, I replaced one of two 50 gallon electric's in one house. Thats $1040.00/year in heating. Eternal $198/year.
                    "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

                      Originally posted by Plumbingbyjay View Post
                      No issues yet with the ICON valve Yet? I have had 3 boards go out already, a pilot generator fail, and one thermostat probe already fail. I love Bradfordwhite, and for speed reasons, would rather just install Tanked. You would have to see what we are dealing with here in North Texas. 2-50 gallon gas water heaters upstairs, then pull down the attic door, go up and there they are. Just today, I replaced one of two 50 gallon electric's in one house. Thats $1040.00/year in heating. Eternal $198/year.
                      Thank You Jay ,This is the best example of all the different Plumbing worlds there are in this Country.
                      NOW I GET IT,TANKS TOOL
                      I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                        that $50 a month gas savings is very questionable.

                        my gas bill went down $5 a month from a average of $13.00 to $8.00. my feeling was the lack of a standing pilot light. these numbers are non winter non home heating months. going from a tank heater to a tankless.

                        i know that the tankless sales reps are much more conservative now that when they were fist selling and pushing these units. they even advise you when a tankless is not recommended. i guess they finally got an earful and revised their claims.

                        i would like to see his gas bill numbers and usage. heck i pay $50. every 6 months.

                        rick.
                        Rick, you're saying you saved ~$5/m by eliminating a single standing pilot?

                        Now who's stretching the truth?
                        "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                        John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

                          We've been loving the icon valves. Only issues so far have been with the flare connection on the valve for the main burner leaking.

                          Could your issues with the valves be the location of installation? Ie the heat in the attic

                          Our heaters generally get installed in conditioned spaces, so I'm wondering if that's the difference
                          No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

                            Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
                            We've been loving the icon valves. Only issues so far have been with the flare connection on the valve for the main burner leaking.

                            Could your issues with the valves be the location of installation? Ie the heat in the attic

                            Our heaters generally get installed in conditioned spaces, so I'm wondering if that's the difference
                            The heat in the Attics is a major factor. Whirlpool, Rheem, A.O. Smith, State and others have had major problems with the extra safety on the valve or in the burner opening up and shutting down. One of the other issues has been the amount of air flow through the screens in the bottom, combined with the smaller pilot light. The Bradfordwhite seems to be the best. It has a full screen bottom. What happens is this. Hot water set at 122F, Attic temperature 130F, Air doesn't rise as well from combustion chamber, Burner kicks on and blows the pilot and everything out trying to force gases out. It is weird, but I have seen it. The fix in our area from some of the manufacturers point of view, is to install a mixing valve on top of the water heater (honeywell), Then set the temperature of the tank hotter and mix it at the top. For the cost of adding this little valve, you are half way to just buying a Bradfordwhite and being done. Rheem Engineers told me to just not install them in the Attic. DUH, I don't have a choice, the builders here are IDIOTS and the State won't force them to do so. I am strictly service. I can't plumb an entire house for $1,200 labor and make a living, so I don't have the ear of the builders. Everything's bigger in Texas, but the Garages and the Laundry room.
                            "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

                              UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, I am eating Crow! DON'T install Any Tankless, unless you absolutely have to! And if you do, you may want to make sure to tell your customer that the warranty is a SCAM! I have had nothing but good things to say about Eternal for the last 3.5 years, but now, we are having major problems. I feel like, I have been led astray. I am a FASST provider, a Service techie in the field. I have been to 3 full on classes at their headquarters and numerous field classes. I know the product very well. EVERY CLASS, I talked about the hard water here in TEXAS. I was told, "we make these units to handle hard water, we are in Texas, and built them for this and other States with hard water". I have had several units within the last few months fail, due to a pressure switch failure. The whole units were destroyed with water. I had to fight to get the warranty, and then I was told to tell my customer, if they didn't install a water softner within the next 30 days the rest of their 18 year warranty was void. CURSE WORD! Then I am told that since the first of the year 2012. That they no longer have a 20 year warranty, it is only a 15 year. All of the publications, I have been handing out say 20!. Why was I not notified? I know that they have my Email. I am on a first name basis with some of the techs down there. I feel BETRAYED. Then I started thinking about it. This is what all new Tankless manufacturers do. They bait you in, and then jerk the RUG. Takagi, Navien, Rinnai, Bosch, Noritz. They have all done it. Now ETERNAL.

                              Eternally ungratefully yours,

                              Eternal FASST Provider
                              Plumbing by Jay, INC.
                              "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

                                Originally posted by Plumbingbyjay View Post
                                UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, I am eating Crow! DON'T install Any Tankless, unless you absolutely have to! And if you do, you may want to make sure to tell your customer that the warranty is a SCAM! I have had nothing but good things to say about Eternal for the last 3.5 years, but now, we are having major problems. I feel like, I have been led astray. I am a FASST provider, a Service techie in the field. I have been to 3 full on classes at their headquarters and numerous field classes. I know the product very well. EVERY CLASS, I talked about the hard water here in TEXAS. I was told, "we make these units to handle hard water, we are in Texas, and built them for this and other States with hard water". I have had several units within the last few months fail, due to a pressure switch failure. The whole units were destroyed with water. I had to fight to get the warranty, and then I was told to tell my customer, if they didn't install a water softner within the next 30 days the rest of their 18 year warranty was void. CURSE WORD! Then I am told that since the first of the year 2012. That they no longer have a 20 year warranty, it is only a 15 year. All of the publications, I have been handing out say 20!. Why was I not notified? I know that they have my Email. I am on a first name basis with some of the techs down there. I feel BETRAYED. Then I started thinking about it. This is what all new Tankless manufacturers do. They bait you in, and then jerk the RUG. Takagi, Navien, Rinnai, Bosch, Noritz. They have all done it. Now ETERNAL.

                                Eternally ungratefully yours,

                                Eternal FASST Provider
                                Plumbing by Jay, INC.
                                A few months ago, I was told I was "nuts" in the heating section of this website, because I share the same exact views as what you just posted. We still acid wash coils here in our state (dying art) and it took me 30 minutes into a Noritz class and a few pieces of pizza to realize tankless is NOT for me or my customers. But yet all we hear is..."It's been in Europe for 50 years!". As far as I'm concerned, that junk can stay over there.

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