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  • Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

    Has anyone installed on of these? All I know is that they combine the constant hot water of a tankless with a small tank inside. A 20 yr warranty, you can hook up a re-circ pump without lowering the warranty?

  • #2
    Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

    I belive so but check with tech support. Sweet units!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

      If you look at the flow rate on these, they are no better than a standard tankless unit. I had a lady insist on one of these for her 4 bathroom home which all 4 showers do get used at once. I tried to explain to her it will not work, unless she install multiple units. I told her she best call someone else since she did not want to listen to me.

      I refuse to install a system I know that is undersized, no matter how much the home owner wants it installed. She tried to argue with me the pro's of the unit and that she researched everything there is to know about them. She refused to listen to the facts that the units max GPM would not meet her needs, and that gas supply piping would need to be upgraded and a new vent has to be ran. She was under the impression the 1/2" gas supply that works for her current 75 gallon heater would be fine.

      Now one other problem around here is I can not find a local supplier that carries these units. This concerns me as well, what if the unit needs some sort of parts and such.
      Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
      A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
      Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
      Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

        Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
        If you look at the flow rate on these, they are no better than a standard tankless unit. I had a lady insist on one of these for her 4 bathroom home which all 4 showers do get used at once. I tried to explain to her it will not work, unless she install multiple units. I told her she best call someone else since she did not want to listen to me.

        I refuse to install a system I know that is undersized, no matter how much the home owner wants it installed. She tried to argue with me the pro's of the unit and that she researched everything there is to know about them. She refused to listen to the facts that the units max GPM would not meet her needs, and that gas supply piping would need to be upgraded and a new vent has to be ran. She was under the impression the 1/2" gas supply that works for her current 75 gallon heater would be fine.

        Now one other problem around here is I can not find a local supplier that carries these units. This concerns me as well, what if the unit needs some sort of parts and such.
        got to love the knowit alls that read up a little inffo on line and no exp.
        SMELLS LIKE $$$$$$ TO ME

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

          Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
          If you look at the flow rate on these, they are no better than a standard tankless unit. I had a lady insist on one of these for her 4 bathroom home which all 4 showers do get used at once. I tried to explain to her it will not work, unless she install multiple units. I told her she best call someone else since she did not want to listen to me.

          I refuse to install a system I know that is undersized, no matter how much the home owner wants it installed. She tried to argue with me the pro's of the unit and that she researched everything there is to know about them. She refused to listen to the facts that the units max GPM would not meet her needs, and that gas supply piping would need to be upgraded and a new vent has to be ran. She was under the impression the 1/2" gas supply that works for her current 75 gallon heater would be fine.

          Now one other problem around here is I can not find a local supplier that carries these units. This concerns me as well, what if the unit needs some sort of parts and such.
          PS buy the way did you see the new member sewerrat66 from chicago on here now
          SMELLS LIKE $$$$$$ TO ME

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

            The company I work for sells Eternal. Our area hasn't had a big demand for them. My biggest concern with these units and others like them has always been flow rate. We have sold a few, but I have not and try not to even make them an option if possible. Most people are scared of the price, especially if they are installed correctly. I did talk to a customer who had one installed for his family of six and he said he is going back to the tank because his gas bill went up after installing the tankless (sort of tankless )

            There will have to be some major improvements to these before I am convinced. Right now I rank them up there with magnetic water softners... Just my 2 cents... R

            Comment


            • #7
              Eternal Hybrid backfiring.

              My Eternal Hybrid works really well and saves me about 50.00 a month vs my 50 gal gas water heater. I have two and a half bathrooms, one washing machine and a dishwasher. I do have one problem with the unit that after one year of trouble free use the unit started occasionally backfiring which is extremely loud. The pop or explosions do not affect the hot water supply but are really a problem. I removed and cleaned all four flame rods with no change. I have the unit supplied with a one inch gas line reduced to 3/4 at the machine. This happens randomly weather other appliances are in use or not. Any suggestions?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

                DOE puts the average family/house with a gas tank heater to have a water heating cost about $400 per year and your saving $600 a year?
                Something doesn't jive, sorry but 25-30% increase in thermal combustion efficiency doesn't make that much difference.

                One thing the eternal water heater doesn't have is a water adjustment valve that quality Tankless units do have.

                Which means once flow rate exceeds the capabilities of raising the water temp the desired rise at maximum burn, the overdraw results in temp drop, so in the case of multiple showers, the water temp may not be warm enough. Tankless would regulate the flow and the fixtures would just devide up the available flow.

                If a eternal is overdrawn the temp drops below setpoint and if the flow changes quickly such as a washer finishes filling, all other fixtures are subject to temp fluctuations and worse yet a temp spike.
                Last edited by Lee H; 11-14-2010, 11:28 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

                  At 19.5 GPM, unless you have a huge, huge, home, how could the flow rate be a problem?
                  Will Rogers Plumbing
                  Moore, Oklahoma
                  (
                  405) 323-2852

                  "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

                  "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



                  www.willrogersplumbing.com
                  http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

                  "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

                    Originally posted by Will Rogers Plumbing View Post
                    At 19.5 GPM, unless you have a huge, huge, home, how could the flow rate be a problem?
                    19.5 gpm is at a 20 degree temp rise, so 50 degree water incoming is ok to bathe at 70 degrees?

                    Besides 19.5 is theory & formula only. How could you get 20 gpm on a eternal that has 3/4" connections with internal piping and valves as small as 5/8" I.D., with 50 to 70 P.S.I.?

                    Come on man you were sold the bag of goods too?
                    Last edited by Lee H; 11-15-2010, 10:13 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

                      that $50 a month gas savings is very questionable.

                      my gas bill went down $5 a month from a average of $13.00 to $8.00. my feeling was the lack of a standing pilot light. these numbers are non winter non home heating months. going from a tank heater to a tankless.

                      i know that the tankless sales reps are much more conservative now that when they were fist selling and pushing these units. they even advise you when a tankless is not recommended. i guess they finally got an earful and revised their claims.

                      i would like to see his gas bill numbers and usage. heck i pay $50. every 6 months.

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

                        Originally posted by Lee H View Post
                        19.5 gpm is at a 20 degree temp rise, so 50 degree water incoming is ok to bathe at 70 degrees?

                        Besides 19.5 is theory & formula only. How could you get 20 gpm on a eternal that has 3/4" connections with internal piping and valves as small as 5/8" I.D., with 50 to 70 P.S.I.?

                        Come on man you were sold the bag of goods too?

                        1. I don't live in Minnesota so I don't have a problem with water coming into the house as cold as you do.

                        2. You do know that the Eternal has a buffer tank on it don't you? Every time you open a faucet you won't get as much of a pressure drop like you would in a Tankless.

                        3. I have installed 5 Eternals. So I'm not just reading the specs. 1 Eternal can do the job of 2 Tanlkess heaters.
                        Will Rogers Plumbing
                        Moore, Oklahoma
                        (
                        405) 323-2852

                        "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

                        "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



                        www.willrogersplumbing.com
                        http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

                        "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

                          When a tankless is specified for a whole house application, I try to use Eternal because all the tankless water heaters i'm aware of (except Navien) have maintenance issues when installed with a recirc pump. And, none of my customers want to wait for hot water. So, we put in a lot of recirc systems.
                          The issue with efficiency and $$$ savings becomes more interesting with Eternal's introduction of condensing water heaters.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

                            Originally posted by Will Rogers Plumbing View Post
                            1. I don't live in Minnesota so I don't have a problem with water coming into the house as cold as you do.

                            2. You do know that the Eternal has a buffer tank on it don't you? Every time you open a faucet you won't get as much of a pressure drop like you would in a Tankless.

                            3. I have installed 5 Eternals. So I'm not just reading the specs. 1 Eternal can do the job of 2 Tanlkess heaters.
                            1. So you are saying in Oklahoma your water inlet temp is 90 year round that you can achieve 110 for bathing? Not quite many reservoirs there are above ground so you see 45-80 degrees, trust me I know. Back to the hypothetical 20 GPM at 20 degree rise, what would that do for you?

                            2. The buffer tank in the Eternal which is actually not a tank but part of the combustion chamber that the fire tubes run through. and its actual content is 1.7 gallons, Eternal rounded it up to 2. You are correct in the lesser pressure drop than all tankless on the Eternal however, the flow control is now missing so you lose precise temp control at high flow rates, its a give and take there.

                            3. A BTU is a BTU, combustion efficiency is combustion efficiency.

                            At a claimed 98% efficiency, with continuous flow rate, they hold nothing over anyone else in tankless of equal efficiency, once the 1.7 gallons is expelled:

                            199,000 x .98 / 8.33 / 60 / 77 (industry standard temp rise) = 5.06 GPM

                            (same as Navien and the Rinnai, Noritz Takagi units in the 93-95% efficiency is only 1/10's of a gallon behind.

                            Things you may not know:
                            The Eternal will only hit there published 98%, after the buffer tank is depleted and the incoming water is at 60 degrees or below. You see the efficiency comes from condensing (up to 1000 BTU's in a gallon of warm condensate).
                            When the eternal cycles to keep stored water warm or minimal amounts are drawn, the tank stays warm thus no condensing operation or condensate is produced.

                            Their SS welds, are subject to failure from chlorides, you living in a fairly warm state may see this premature heat exchanger failure due to heavy chlorination during the warmer water temps in spring, summer and fall.

                            I do know the Eternal inside and out.
                            Last edited by Lee H; 11-15-2010, 03:32 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Eternal Hybrid Hot Water heater???

                              I sent Lee H's comments to my local Eternal rep and here is his response.

                              #1 The Eternal does in fact have a very good outlet temp control device. Very accurate by adding cold water to the stored hot water and monitoring the outlet temp.
                              #2 The tank/heat exchanger is 1.9 gallons not 1.7 (is the “heat exchanger” on a Natural gas 40 gallon tank heater, really 40 gallons??)
                              #3 Using a recirc line is a huge feature that customers in water sensitive areas are demanding. (Less water down the drain waiting for hot water)
                              The Eternal handles the recirc installation without affecting the warrantee unlike every other tankless on the market.
                              #4 Not sure of the fellows math on the 98% rating only after the tank is depleted of stored but,
                              last time I checked people take 10-15 minute showers and at 2.5 gpm for a standard shower head, the Eternal Heater will be up to the 98% efficiency rate in about 60 seconds.
                              #5 Time will tell on the 316 Stainless welds and chloramines. I have neaver heard of this theory but,
                              With a 20 replacement warranty, seems to me Grand Hall is willing to stand behind their heater.

                              Comment

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