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New house recirc system?

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  • #16
    Re: New house recirc system?

    Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
    And those 3 tank water heaters that were installed in a span of 25yrs was still cheaper than the 1 tankless unit. And alot less service calls I'll bet too.
    OK 3 tanked water heaters about $1700. 1 tankless $1400. It's been awhile since elementry school math but I think the tankless just cost less. As for service calls and go backs, only the Navien has ever given a problem. All the rest installed with proper gas size have not had issues. Depending on water conditions you may need to descale every year to every few years. But as a service provider I would revisit a tanked water heater for a flushing too.

    I have no desire to change the minds of the tank guys. They are helping me get higher paying jobs. Please assume you know what your customer can afford and wants. Please continue the standard quo I want to keep getting the better jobs from customers that said the last guy didn't listen to them.

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    • #17
      Re: New house recirc system?

      Every heater has a proper application. I do not like tankless units for 90% of the applications, but I won't chase a customer away who wants one, only give them options.
      Last edited by Birddoggiest; 06-09-2010, 08:38 AM.

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      • #18
        Re: New house recirc system?

        Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
        OK 3 tanked water heaters about $1700. 1 tankless $1400. It's been awhile since elementry school math but I think the tankless just cost less. As for service calls and go backs, only the Navien has ever given a problem. All the rest installed with proper gas size have not had issues. Depending on water conditions you may need to descale every year to every few years. But as a service provider I would revisit a tanked water heater for a flushing too.

        I have no desire to change the minds of the tank guys. They are helping me get higher paying jobs. Please assume you know what your customer can afford and wants. Please continue the standard quo I want to keep getting the better jobs from customers that said the last guy didn't listen to them.
        You charge $1400 for a tankless heater, installed top to bottom, including electric hook up? Thats pretty cheap, I thought it would be alot more. Last time I priced a Noritz unit, it was about $1000 just for materials. Also Lee H said in one of these threads on this post, that we are losing $1000 profit on each unit. How could that be, if you only get $1400. Just saying.
        I get $750 for a standard 40 gal gas, installed, & I always change the fume pipe size to 4" as per code here, & haul the old heater away.
        We can agree to disagree, & I know you guys on here know your stuff, on tankless. But sometimes you come across, as anyone who doesn't install tankless, is stupid. JMHO.

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        • #19
          Re: New house recirc system?

          Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
          You charge $1400 for a tankless heater, installed top to bottom, including electric hook up. Thats pretty cheap, I thought it would be alot more. Last time I priced a Noritz unit, it was about $1000 just for materials. Also Lee H said in one of these threads on this post, that we are losing $1000 profit on each unit. How could that be, if you only get $1400. Just saying.
          I get $750 for a standard 40 gal gas, installed, & I always change the fume pipe size to 4" as per code here, & haul the old heater away.
          We can agree to disagree, & I know you guys on here know your stuff, on tankless. But sometimes you come across, as anyone who doesn't install tankless, is stupid. JMHO.
          These costs are my costs for the unit only. I am not going to throw out numbers for an installed price as every job is completely different. Some have to be repiped for gas. Others run some vent as opposed to a direct vent situation.

          By no means am I saying that if you don't install tankless there is something wrong with you. I agree with an earlier post that only about 10-15% of our customers are in the market for tankless. What blows for that customer is a single minded service provider that fails to listen to their desires and just does the same old basic job.

          As for what this post was really about, Yes! use the 6 gallon tank to recirc the system and Yes! it does make sense.

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          • #20
            Re: New house recirc system?

            Noritz has a good piping schematic of a recirc with 6gal storage tank.
            Sorry I couldn't find it on web page personally, but I have a cut sheet from a job I bid. Maybe someone can figure out how to post it up here.

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            • #21
              Re: New house recirc system?

              All you would have to do is take the hot out of the tankless to a check valve then tie in your recirc pump down stream of the check on the cold side of the 6 gallon and out to the hot supply to the house.

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              • #22
                Re: New house recirc system?

                Originally posted by Birddoggiest View Post
                All you would have to do is take the hot out of the tankless to a check valve then tie in your recirc pump down stream of the check on the cold side of the 6 gallon and out to the hot supply to the house.
                I looked at my pipe diagram, & your exactly right! Just don't forget you also need an expansion tank downstream of that check valve too, right? Because with that checkvalve in there, that 6gal heater, & return loop is now closed .
                This also shows an aquastat on the recirc pump, so it doesn't run all the time, how do you feel about that?

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                • #23
                  Re: New house recirc system?

                  I use a grundfos with a built-in aquastat,timer and check valve. An expansion tank is needed. I have never done a recirc on a tankless but that sounds like the best way to do it. Here is a link to the pump.

                  http://www.grundfos.com/web/homeca.n...L-021_0908.pdf

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                  • #24
                    Re: New house recirc system?

                    ever had any callbacks with those?

                    i've stayed away from the ones with a built-in timer because the stand alone timers like that i've used have generally failed within a few years.

                    I usually do them with an aquastat.

                    The Logamatic has a recirc timer function built in, I think we're gonna be using that alot.

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                    • #25
                      Re: New house recirc system?

                      Never had a call back on one. You can by-pass the timer with the switch if you want and only run off the aquastat.

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