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  • Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

    I've NEVER had this problem before so here it goes:

    I did a 31 bathroom time-share building last august for a G.C. Two months ago he called me and asked me to go there because one of the shower valves was loose in the wall. When I went there, ALL FOUR 2-hole 1/2" THICK plastic pipe straps holding the copper pipe to the 2 by 4's were broken. I told the office there that this is not "normal use" is it "abuse" and "this time it is a freebie but any time after I will have to charge." Some of the 500 lb tenants must be using the shower valve to lift themselves out of the deep jacuzzi tub. The G.C. called me again with the same problem this week and I told him there will be a charge. He started in again how "no other subs charge him for extras" and that I am expensive. HE has made this complaint many times before...but KEPT using me.... This is coming from a guy who tacked on $40,000 to a $60,000 change order for the tile on that same job and all HE did was call in the order(not even pay for the material)..... I told him that I am sick of working with him and hearing his complaints and that I no longer will. If his other subs want to bend over and be his b*tch, then great for him...but I REFUSE to. Why is it that G.C.'s think they are god and should make gobs of money while us subs work for the bare minimum? Have any of you had either one of these issues?

  • #2
    Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

    I have had plenty of GCs just like that. On in particular comes to mind. He was building a spec home in Sailfish Point, FL to the tune of $4.5 million. One would think with that kind of money out, you would have your ducks in a row. This guy never called for service until it was the morning of the day he needed service. Nevermind our schedules are usually booked a week in advance. So here we go again with then V.P. Al Gore coming in to stay at the house. We get the call at 9am and we have to set all water heaters and finally connect all appliances by 4pm with a secret service agent watching over every move and a mach 10 hanging out under their jackets. Talk about unnecessary stress.

    For every 5 crappy GCs there is one really good one. We have divorced more than a few over the years. That is a huge reason we don't do new construction anymore. All service and remodels and we are much happier for it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

      After thought...make them install grab bars if it happens again.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

        Would a three hole drop eared elbow hold up better then plastic straps?

        I have never had good luck with the plastic strap

        The reason I ask is that I just got out of my code update class where the instructor / state inspector let us know that we will have to use support systems specifically designed for pipe support ( drop ears with screw holes or support bars with clamps) and tied directly to the structure... No more wrapping things in pipestrap (IPC)...
        Last edited by OkieBill; 06-12-2010, 09:50 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

          I did use drop ears elbows up top. All of the piping is L copper and I used 4 of the thicker plastic 2 hole straps and screwed them into the new 2 by 4's. One for the tub spout drop, one on the hot, one on the cold, and one right above the valve on the shower head pipe. It was sturdy as hell when I installed them. I obviously will use copper straps from now on for the valves but these animals shouldn't be getting away with this crap. Sioux Chief rates their strength at 15 lbs each but I'm sure it's more then that in reality. Moen doesn't say anything about it being mandatory to use the two screw holes in the valve body........hopefully that will cover my butt in case this place tries anything against me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

            Originally posted by vette850 View Post
            I've NEVER had this problem before so here it goes:

            I did a 31 bathroom time-share building last august for a G.C. Two months ago he called me and asked me to go there because one of the shower valves was loose in the wall. When I went there, ALL FOUR 2-hole 1/2" THICK plastic pipe straps holding the copper pipe to the 2 by 4's were broken. I told the office there that this is not "normal use" is it "abuse" and "this time it is a freebie but any time after I will have to charge." Some of the 500 lb tenants must be using the shower valve to lift themselves out of the deep jacuzzi tub. The G.C. called me again with the same problem this week and I told him there will be a charge. He started in again how "no other subs charge him for extras" and that I am expensive. HE has made this complaint many times before...but KEPT using me.... This is coming from a guy who tacked on $40,000 to a $60,000 change order for the tile on that same job and all HE did was call in the order(not even pay for the material)..... I told him that I am sick of working with him and hearing his complaints and that I no longer will. If his other subs want to bend over and be his b*tch, then great for him...but I REFUSE to. Why is it that G.C.'s think they are god and should make gobs of money while us subs work for the bare minimum? Have any of you had either one of these issues?
            Shweeheeheet!!!
            I bet that was a rush

            G.C's are just as human as any other bunch.
            Just like any other human.Don't give them too much line if they start getting fiesty.Pop them early if they are having a problem with bloating.

            Everyone's happier in the long run.

            We try to make as many people comfortable as we can.A few times people take advantage of us.Standing your ground does your soul good

            Oh...To answer your question...Yupper doodle
            It ain't a joke when it's going down.But to look back on...

            I had a friend ask me once"You ever gonna work for this kook again?"I said you better believe it,I know the man now.I paid for that knowledge.I want the chance to make my Investment back

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

              we've started using stainless perf. strap to back up plastic close to the shower valve. Doesn't look good but it is very effective.
              On Moen shower valves( because the water here bloats the rubber pieces within two years making it a nightmare to change cart's)we are using three hole drop ells and brass nipples to take the extra strain during service.
              Mike

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

                "I had a friend ask me once"You ever gonna work for this kook again?"I said you better believe it,I know the man now.I paid for that knowledge.I want the chance to make my Investment back"

                I feel the same way! I don't turn down any work from anyone but I do price it accordingly.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

                  Originally posted by Birddoggiest View Post
                  "I had a friend ask me once"You ever gonna work for this kook again?"I said you better believe it,I know the man now.I paid for that knowledge.I want the chance to make my Investment back"

                  I feel the same way! I don't turn down any work from anyone but I do price it accordingly.
                  You can price it any way you want. The trick is, getting paid. These type of customers, or contractors will look for every little item. or excuse to hold up your payment, reduce your payment, or not pay you at all.
                  These people don't change their ways. Once I fire them, they're fired for life.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

                    Originally posted by vette850 View Post
                    I've NEVER had this problem before so here it goes:

                    I did a 31 bathroom time-share building last august for a G.C. Two months ago he called me and asked me to go there because one of the shower valves was loose in the wall. When I went there, ALL FOUR 2-hole 1/2" THICK plastic pipe straps holding the copper pipe to the 2 by 4's were broken. I told the office there that this is not "normal use" is it "abuse" and "this time it is a freebie but any time after I will have to charge." Some of the 500 lb tenants must be using the shower valve to lift themselves out of the deep jacuzzi tub. The G.C. called me again with the same problem this week and I told him there will be a charge. He started in again how "no other subs charge him for extras" and that I am expensive. HE has made this complaint many times before...but KEPT using me.... This is coming from a guy who tacked on $40,000 to a $60,000 change order for the tile on that same job and all HE did was call in the order(not even pay for the material)..... I told him that I am sick of working with him and hearing his complaints and that I no longer will. If his other subs want to bend over and be his b*tch, then great for him...but I REFUSE to. Why is it that G.C.'s think they are god and should make gobs of money while us subs work for the bare minimum? Have any of you had either one of these issues?
                    Just trying to figure out how this can happen. Are these shower valves piped in with plastic water pipes or copper? Are we not securing the actual shower valves anymore on these bigger jobs, but just securing the pipes on each side of 2x4's? On top of that, using 2 hole plastic straps, that get brittle & break easily. Not critisizing, but are these jobs figured that tight, that a 2X4 brace can't be put across, to secure these faucets better, when roughing in? I know Delta has a bracket with screw holes to secure properly to a cross brace. Only problem I see with securing them on rough, is knowing exactly where the finish wall is, within the faucet tollerance, cuz you can't adjust the depth. But that should be easy if your doing 31 of them. Also the public is always harder on this stuff, in my experience. Just saying!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

                      I asked the G.C. at the beginning of the job how thick the walls(some resin style) were....he told me a certain thickness....and I installed as such. Well....he was wrong and I had to use Moen extension kits on the first 3 valves. I installed 3 new pieces of 2 by 4's for each shower valve...I was not being cheap, the reason that I just strapped the copper pipe to the wood was that I would have had to drill out about 3/8" depth in every piece of wood behind every shower valve to fit the posi-temp valve in....if i decided to screw in the valves themselves. This was a fast pace job and I NO ONE in the chain of command saw anything wrong with the installation. It obviously went a lot quicker screwing them in this way. I never had trouble with the thicker plastic straps breaking before but I HAVE learned from this experience. I never do anything cheap with me work, my father was anal about doing quality work...and so I learned from him years ago. Funny thing is that 1 week after I told this G.C. (who expected me to do extra work for no pay and said that I am too expensive) that I will never work for him again....he called me up to do a toilet. I bit my tongue and pictured how his new "great and cheap" plumber probably screwed something up and now he was calling me again. kharma is a bi*ch!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

                        This is why I don't do new construction. Bid to tight, rush rush, all to get short changed in the end with a 20% hold back by the G.C.

                        Somebody has to do it...just glad I don't anymore.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

                          I personally use the the copper straps and hyco couplings when I mount tub and shower valves. They are stronger and you can solder them to keep the assembly from twisting. I also use drywall screws instead of nails on all straps. Easier to remove for fine tuning if needed.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

                            Honestly, never used plastic strap. Typically frame to the pipes & two hole copper straps, backing board for the valve when room is available.

                            Some of those Grohe valves need a 2x10 wall.

                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Shower valve straps breaking!!!!

                              That's kind of odd, because Moen has a lot of tolerance for distance when roughing in.

                              I use to the 2 hole bunny ear strap for copper, and never had a problem with them breaking.

                              We will only work for 2 carpenters in our area, and at that we still don't want to do it. We normally won't even return their phone calls.

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