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  • #31
    Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

    Rick do you think the programable T-stat for B.W. gas heaters are a true savings or waste since you are heating up the whole tank from room temp ?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

      Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
      We have different units. Your charts are meaningful only to your unit. The description of the unit before was similar.

      Even still, what kind of shower head do you have? Have you measured the gpm? What is the ground water temp? Where is the delta T for the unit for your area?
      the unit listed is 90% efficient. the highest i think is a 98% efficiency. so i will give you a 10% increase in capacity if you like.

      that puts you up to a max. of 3.3 gpm at 60 degree rise.

      or in your case in colorado even less.

      here is the fine print for the 120 amp unit that is listed:

      "Endless hot water for 1 major application at a time"

      like i said, this is for a very small condo in santa monica. 1 bathroom and at the time 1 person living there. not bad for 500 sq. feet and a price tag of $450k 4 blocks from the beach.

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
        well either your statements are wrong, or your attorney lives in a tiny shack.

        i'll assume since he's your customer that he lives in colorado. not exactly a warm gound water state.

        so here is the link to a 120 amp 240 volt tankless electric heater.

        http://www.heater-store.com/images_t...e125-specs.pdf

        PowerStar
        AE115 & AE125
        Whole House Electric
        Tankless Water Heaters
        A perfect alternative to the electric tank water heater,
        PowerStar electric tankless water heaters are designed
        to replace a 40-gallon tank and provide endless hot
        water throughout the home. With two powerful and
        compact models to choose from – AE115 or AE125 – it
        will fit just about anywhere and is built to last.
        NOTE: This product has specific electric installation
        requirements. See reverse side for more information.


        PowerStar
        AE115 & AE125

        Whole house electric tankless water heaters.
        BBT


        NORTH AMERICA CORPORATION
        Bosch Group
        Bosch Water Heating
        340 Mad River Park
        Waitsfield, VT 05673
        866.642.3199 • www.boschhotwater.com
        Features
        • Over 90% efficiency rating
        • 10-year warranty on heat exchanger
        • External temperature control knob
        • Thermal cut-out for safety
        • Flow sensor to provide a constant output temperature
        • Electronic flow switch
        • Provides an ENDLESS supply of hot water
        • Weighs less than 25 pounds and fits virtually anywhere
        • No temperature/pressure relief valve necessary in
        most areas.
        77799017/0307-J
        Endless hot water for 1 major application at a time.
        gpm: gallons per minute
        NOTE: The unit will not provide an output temperature above 131˚F
        * Minimum recommended service for the AE115 is 150 amps.
        ** Minimum recommended service for the AE125 is 200 amps.
        *In Canada unit must be wired to a single breaker. AE Canada Kit
        required and included.
        .90 .94
        90% 94%
        20 lbs. 22 lbs.
        15 ½" x 15 ¼" x 4 ½" 15 ½" x 15 ¼" x 4 ½"
        ¾" male NPT ¾" male NPT
        240 240
        17.25kW 26.85kW
        80 (2X40 amps)* 120 (3X40 amps)**
        80 (1X80 amps) 120 (1X120 amps)
        8 gauge 8 gauge
        (4 conductors & ground) (6 conductors & ground)
        4 gauge 2 gauge
        (2 conductors & ground)* (2 conductors & ground)*
        Single Single
        45˚F Rise 2.6 gpm 4.0 gpm
        50˚F Rise 2.3 gpm 3.7 gpm
        60˚F Rise 2.0 gpm 3.0 gpm
        70˚F Rise 1.7 gpm 2.6 gpm
        80˚F Rise 1.5 gpm 2.2 gpm





        Energy Factor
        Efficiency
        Weight
        Dimensions
        Water Fittings
        Volts
        Kilowatts
        U.S.A.
        Canada
        U.S.A.
        Canada
        Phase


        Technical Specifications
        MODEL AE115 AE125
        ELECTRICAL REQUIREMENTS
        MAXIMUM FLOW RATE AT GIVEN TEMPERATURE RISE
        Average ground water temperature in the U.S. is 55˚F
        Amps
        Wire Size
        AE125 Recommended
        AE115 & AE125 Recommended
        Model AE115 is not recommended in climates
        where average ground water temperature is less
        than 60˚F.

        AE115 Interior AE125 Interior

        this is the link copy if you don't want to go to the link. need to remember that the smaller unit is 80 amps and the larger unit is 120 amps which is what my customer has. so with a 60 degree rise in calif. they will only get 3 gpm.

        please explain how a lawyer in colorado can survive with those numbers

        10% of my customers are attorneys and the last thing i want is an upset customer who's an attorney

        rick.

        Mark I'm sorry...but I have a master quoting Bosch at me...

        What real tech is going to take that seriously?

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

          Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
          Mark I'm sorry...but I have a master quoting Bosch at me...

          What real tech is going to take that seriously?

          [/LEFT]
          never said i installed the unit.

          lets see you post your so called mystery unit that puts out endless water with the same electrical requirements.

          i'm dying to see how they defy the laws of physics.

          oh the bosch is a .94 energy factor, your 10% just went to 4%

          so lets see your 120 amp unit that puts out enough hot water for your attorneys entire house. we all want to learn from the best.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

            Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
            never said i installed the unit.

            lets see you post you so called mystery unit that puts out endless water with the same electrical requirements.

            i'm dying to see how they defy the laws of physics.

            oh the bosch is a .94 energy factor, your 10% just went to 4%

            so lets see your 120 amp unit that puts out enough hot water for your attorneys entire house. we all want to learn from the best.

            rick.
            If you never installed it then why are you quoting and backing DIY junk.

            Now that is just foolish
            I and the forum were looking for experience.

            I will txt my friend in the morning and get a real model for reference.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

              Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
              If you never installed it then why are you quoting and backing DIY junk.

              Now that is just foolish
              I and the forum were looking for experience.

              I will txt my friend in the morning and get a real model for reference.
              didn't say i was backing it. just the opposite. i said you would need a nuke power plant to run the unit and the one that my customer has barely makes enough hot water for a 1 bathroom condo.

              remember i've only installed 2 paying tankless, both gas and 1 freebie for the benefit of the forum. the wife wants it out.

              so since you seem to read between the lines, i figured i'll refresh your memory again, and again and again

              you're the one that said you installed a similar size unit for your attorney and that if they weren't happy with it, the wife would have let you know.

              with your 156iq, i would think you would remember the facts a little better than just a poor dumb plumber like me

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                I just installes an Eemax 190tc in a cabin. It is okay for a single fixture use and is 80 amp. The 120 should do a shower and say dishwasher. 10 GPM will take some switch gear!

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                  Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                  Ok master think fast...how many kilowatts? I have the same type system on my attorneys home and it works fine. If it didn't? His wife would tell him and he would let me know.

                  I can play power too master in your own mind.
                  Maybe you need to read first. I didn't say I installed it. I said I have one I service that is my attorney/friend. It works fine for them and if it didn't I would be sure to know.

                  If you aren't backing the numbers presented then please get some that you can.

                  So once again and again you have missed the mark. Please get back on topic and with real information, from a professional source.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                    Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                    now back to an electric tankless

                    forget the 3 phase, you need a nuclear power plant next door.

                    the 1 and only tankless whole house electric i've worked on was fortunately for a 1 bathroom condo. their wall was right on the other side of the buildings main service panel. if i'm not mistaking, it was a set of 6- 40 amp breakers. 120 amps 240 volts.

                    i know that the unit puts out just enough for a shower. not much more. the only reason they went tankless was the space savings. defiantly not the money savings.

                    better check with the electricians before you commit to a whole house electric. chances are they will need a new panel and probably a new drop from the pole.

                    rick.
                    i can see your confusion. i stated i worked on it, as in serviced it.

                    i did not install it as it was part of the remodel they did before i ever met them.

                    their complaint was lack of flow and hot water. i did the research to give them the bad news and also checked to make sure all 3 tanks were heating. with an amp probe, i can get the load reading of each element and check the readings to the specs.

                    i knew once i read the specs on this unit, they were screwed. unfortunately the contractor might not have realized the delivery rate of this unit. what i do know is that they had to install an entire new panel for their unit to power it. the small condo also has an electric oven, electric radiant ceiling heat, and electric dryer.

                    hate to see the electric bill, especially during the winter.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      i can see your confusion. i stated i worked on it, as in serviced it.

                      i did not install it as it was part of the remodel they did before i ever met them.

                      their complaint was lack of flow and hot water. i did the research to give them the bad news and also checked to make sure all 3 tanks were heating. with an amp probe, i can get the load reading of each element and check the readings to the specs.

                      i knew once i read the specs on this unit, they were screwed. unfortunately the contractor might not have realized the delivery rate of this unit. what i do know is that they had to install an entire new panel for their unit to power it. the small condo also has an electric oven, electric radiant ceiling heat, and electric dryer.

                      hate to see the electric bill, especially during the winter.

                      rick.
                      So what I just finally read after the pissing match is that the unit did not have correct power supply in the first place. The unit failed to operate because the installation was wrong. How is that the fault of the unit?

                      Good diagnostics.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                        Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                        Maybe you need to read first. I didn't say I installed it. I said I have one I service that is my attorney/friend. It works fine for them and if it didn't I would be sure to know.

                        If you aren't backing the numbers presented then please get some that you can.

                        So once again and again you have missed the mark. Please get back on topic and with real information, from a professional source.
                        i posted the specs and they are lousy. you said yours is a similar size unit. please post your specs so i can get a good laugh.

                        there is not much room for .94 efficiency to get any better.

                        so you either have a much larger tankless with a much higher electrical demand. or your attorney / friend lives in a tiny place and they only use 1 fixture at a time.

                        please post the link like i did so i can be educated on the laws of power in and power out. 120 amps at 230-240 volts is the unit i posted on.

                        your's is similar, correct

                        i think we're on the same page

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                          Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                          So what I just finally read after the pissing match is that the unit did not have correct power supply in the first place. The unit failed to operate because the installation was wrong. How is that the fault of the unit?

                          Good diagnostics.
                          once again, you're having a difficult time understating my post.

                          the power supply was correct. they had the 6- 40 amp breakers.

                          3 sets of twin 40's.

                          the problem is the unit is only rated for approx 3gpm at 60 degree rise. the unit is performing as it was rated for.

                          the issue is the unit is not large enough for the homeowner. they can't shower while they are doing the laundry or dishwasher. even if it's just 1 or the other.

                          that's why i would love to know how your attorney/ friend can have a similar power demand and get more out of it than the one i listed?

                          there was nothing wrong with the unit or the power. it performs as it's listed.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                            Mine may be larger or the same? The 3 heat exchangers are similar. I only fix all the crap new construction plumbers do and what time delivers.

                            Service guys make the system work and make the customer happy in the end. The new construction guy only cares about making the customer happy upfront, collecting a check, and leaving.

                            I don't really believe you have any interest in learning as you already know it all.

                            I will txt him and ask for the unit model number. I will also ask his wife if she has any complaints. Just to be sure.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                              looking forward to those numbers.

                              numbers don't lie and neither do i. i have posted the real numbers and the real heater link.

                              since you don't know the unit model. i would assume you know the size of the house, the amount of bathrooms and the number of people that live there. the attorney is your friend

                              mine was for a 500 square foot condo that at the time was only a single female owner. in the last few years she's got married and had 1 kid.

                              they moved out and still own the unit. they rent it out to a young couple. and yes i still work there and the first time i met the new tenants they asked about the lack of hot water. and believe me it only took 1 minute to explain it and they understood it without playing 20 questions

                              so please give us the facts about your friends house. i won't be able to go to bed without that info

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                                once again, you're having a difficult time understating my post.

                                the power supply was correct. they had the 6- 40 amp breakers.

                                3 sets of twin 40's.

                                the problem is the unit is only rated for approx 3gpm at 60 degree rise. the unit is performing as it was rated for.

                                the issue is the unit is not large enough for the homeowner. they can't shower while they are doing the laundry or dishwasher. even if it's just 1 or the other.

                                that's why i would love to know how your attorney/ friend can have a similar power demand and get more out of it than the one i listed?

                                there was nothing wrong with the unit or the power. it performs as it's listed.

                                rick.
                                Didn't I just cover sizing in the beginning? Who is failing to read?

                                It is not the units fault that the installer did not meet the customer supply demands by installing the right gpm delivery. The unit is functioning at its rating.

                                Who is at fault? Not the unit. The installer is for sure. That got you off the hook. You still cannot slam a unit for being installed with high hopes and being under sized

                                Comment

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