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  • #46
    Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

    still waiting to see how you power your attorneys house with a similar rating. 3 gpm is not enough to do more than 1 fixture.

    so what's the specs of your friends house.

    is it 500' or 5000'?

    is it 1 bathroom or 5 bathrooms?

    is it just the owner and his wife? or do they have kids at home?

    not a trick question. just allows me to compare my customers situation that doesn't work very well with your's that seems to work fine.

    maybe your power has more btu's

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
      looking forward to those numbers.

      numbers don't lie and neither do i. i have posted the real numbers and the real heater link.

      since you don't know the unit model. i would assume you know the size of the house, the amount of bathrooms and the number of people that live there. the attorney is your friend

      mine was for a 500 square foot condo that at the time was only a single female owner. in the last few years she's got married and had 1 kid.

      they moved out and still own the unit. they rent it out to a young couple. and yes i still work there and the first time i met the new tenants they asked about the lack of hot water. and believe me it only took 1 minute to explain it and they understood it without playing 20 questions

      so please give us the facts about your friends house. i won't be able to go to bed without that info

      rick.
      If you are posting the real heater link, then you are posting garbage for starters. Bosch is as DIY as it gets.

      The home is 1600 square feet and is 2 bath 3 bedroom. Now I am going to have to pry for a complaint.

      My sheds are more than 500 square feet. That's not a condo that's a closet. Somebody really has screwed up.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

        Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
        Didn't I just cover sizing in the beginning? Who is failing to read?

        It is not the units fault that the installer did not meet the customer supply demands by installing the right gpm delivery. The unit is functioning at its rating.

        Who is at fault? Not the unit. The installer is for sure. That got you off the hook. You still cannot slam a unit for being installed with high hopes and being under sized
        not exactly. the original discussion was the power demand these units required. i stated the facts and then listed them for the o.p to get an idea of the power to water delivery factor.

        unless they have units that are higher delivery with lower power factors, i doubt the power upgrades will come cheap. that's the original discussion from my original post.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

          Originally posted by DELCASE View Post
          I am working on high dollar lake house remodel
          They don't want to spare the room for the 80 gal tank i unhooked
          The main house only has 3 baths all with new showers
          1 will have a shower & a claw foot soaker tub
          I would like to have 10 gals of hot water a min to keep up with the family peaks... Cost is not the problem , its function
          Would like a little input Thanks ron
          Let's get it right. The first question was and I answered how to size 10 gpm.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

            Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
            If you are posting the real heater link, then you are posting garbage for starters. Bosch is as DIY as it gets.

            The home is 1600 square feet and is 2 bath 3 bedroom. Now I am going to have to pry for a complaint.

            My sheds are more than 500 square feet. That's not a condo that's a closet. Somebody really has screwed up.
            posting what they have. not a made up fictional dream. the bosch has a 10 year heat exchanger warranty. probably similar to other electric heaters. the power factor is a .94 which should qualify for an energy rebate out here.

            the difference with your shed and their condo is theirs is 4 blocks from the beach and a list price of 450k. a 2 bath in that building was sold for 750k. this is a 1971 building and an apartment conversion.
            santa monica has some of the most expensive real estate in the country.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              now back to an electric tankless

              forget the 3 phase, you need a nuclear power plant next door.

              the 1 and only tankless whole house electric i've worked on was fortunately for a 1 bathroom condo. their wall was right on the other side of the buildings main service panel. if i'm not mistaking, it was a set of 6- 40 amp breakers. 120 amps 240 volts.

              i know that the unit puts out just enough for a shower. not much more. the only reason they went tankless was the space savings. defiantly not the money savings.

              better check with the electricians before you commit to a whole house electric. chances are they will need a new panel and probably a new drop from the pole.

              rick.
              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              not exactly. the original discussion was the power demand these units required. i stated the facts and then listed them for the o.p to get an idea of the power to water delivery factor.

              unless they have units that are higher delivery with lower power factors, i doubt the power upgrades will come cheap. that's the original discussion from my original post.

              rick.
              Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
              Let's get it right. The first question was and I answered how to size 10 gpm.
              and i answered to have the electrican check to see what is avaliable to power a tankless heater. knowing that they require alot of power, i then went and posted a link to my customers heater.

              basically it uses a ton of power and puts out enough hot water for 1 shower/ fixture.

              upgrading the electrical doesn't come cheap. nor is it always possible as in the case of my customer.

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                Wow do you guys ever sleep
                The only reason tank less is being talked about is they want to put the tank in a small place in a wall behind the com .. A door above the commode would be easier to access

                [Dam Decorator Designers]

                They have a new panel box about 15ft away
                I dont think this young guy has a job but paying a higher electric bill wont hurt him other than raising his hand

                We still have the whole bathroom floor broke out ... if i could get them to take up some space in his wifes closet for a door to gain access behind the commode I will put a tank in ..And make things simple
                Dam decorator again

                I put 1 Ho bought whole house elec tank less in this spring ,
                it was a heck of a job for the electrician
                It was a big unit i didn't really pay a lot of attn to the brand
                but it did run a good stream of hot at the tub when i was done
                Next week i think i will stop in and ask what they think about it..
                Now that they had it for a while

                Thanks for the input

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                  Just put in an AquaHut with tank heater and be done with it. They get the room and the supply they need without any VooDoo electrical upgrades.

                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                    Wow, this thread blossomed over night. Kevin, the units name starts with a B and ends with an H.

                    I won't get involved in the whole tankless discussion. Everyone has read my rants here and elsewhere on the subject. I have not mellowed with age but I do realize that arguing the subject is pointless. It's a lot like arguing pex vs copper or flat rate vs t&m.

                    Those of you installing them.... best of luck and I sincerely hope that they last long enough so that warrantying them does not put you out of business.

                    P.S. I have an IQ slightly larger than my shoe size but it's good enough to be a plumber
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                      When Noritz had a class on these tankless water heaters, I went, because I knew nothing about tankless really.

                      As I sat there, looking at a model they had for display, a few things entered my mind.

                      * There is a coil inside..same concept of a coil in a boiler.

                      * That coil is going to lime up, and those who acid coils on boilers know..you can only acid those things so many times. I asked this question in front of the group, and the salesman dodged my question. (red flag)

                      * I understand now that they have their own cleaning solution so coils won't lime up. I live in an area that has a few townships with terrible water.

                      * What is a tankless water heater? IMO..they are over firing the unit to achieve all of this hot water.

                      So I thought to myself....

                      If you don't have a custom shower in your home, who is going to use 300 gallons of hot water the first hour? Nobody! They would be lucky to use half of that in the first hour.

                      How can I justify asking my customer to pay $3,000 or so for this unit, that needs maintenance on it, AND if you don't have enough hot water, you're going to have to bank another one along aside of it.

                      Now I'm not an electrician, but I'm sure these units make the meter SPIN!
                      Plus, you're enticing customers to use more water, because they supposedly have endless hot water.

                      A buddy of mine..we both grew up in the Plumbing trade with our fathers. He told me he installed a tankless in his house, and ripped it out 6 months later..he hated it.

                      I'm not trying to start an argument between those who like them or hate them, but I highly doubt I will ever sell or install a tankless water heater.

                      Some guys in my area love them..and push them, and I wish them all the luck in the world.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                        both rinnai and noritz sucked a lot of guys in. you know, shiny new things dazzle the eyes and cloud the mind
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                          thanks flux. you did do your assigned reading and book report

                          you got a 98

                          have a nice 4th

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            both rinnai and noritz sucked a lot of guys in. you know, shiny new things dazzle the eyes and cloud the mind
                            you sure it wasn't the free lunch at the class

                            we had pizza and soft drinks

                            best off the record quote i got from a factory rep.

                            "these tankless are for tree huggers"

                            even they know it

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                              Originally posted by Birddoggiest View Post
                              I just installes an Eemax 190tc in a cabin. It is okay for a single fixture use and is 80 amp. The 120 should do a shower and say dishwasher. 10 GPM will take some switch gear!
                              NOOOOO, EEmax are an insurance claim waiting to happen...

                              Hit the search function and see the pics and posts about Eemax electric water heaters...

                              I have had 2 bad experiences with emax heaters and will not install / service or recommend them.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Electric tankless waterheaters

                                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                                both rinnai and noritz sucked a lot of guys in. you know, shiny new things dazzle the eyes and cloud the mind
                                You took the the thoughts right out of my mind!!

                                When I was at this class, a lot of contractors were all pumped up about using these units, bragging about profits and so forth. Not 1 person besides me asked a tough question to the salesman, and when I asked these questions..I think the counter guys from the supply house wanted to rush me out of the classroom..lol. But hey..I'm the one who has to deal with the customer if something goes wrong with these units.

                                But you know what? I''ll be the first to admit I'm not an expert in anything, and I will never state that I am.Just because I'm a master Plumber doesn't mean that I know it all. I still learn something new all the time in this trade, and my father still teaches me something all the time.

                                But for me..I'm a common sense person, and these units just don't make sense right now for residential purposes. I just think there is too many headaches involved, and I would rather retain my customers then lose them over this product.

                                If I'm correct, tankless has been in this country for the past 5-6 years. That's not enough time IMO to work out all the bugs. I'm tired of hearing salesmen say it's been in Europe for a bazillion years.

                                If a customer of mine wants more hot water, I'll push a High Out put Bradford white water heater. Yea..they will STILL be heating water they are not using, but there are far less headaches involved.
                                Last edited by Flux; 07-03-2010, 09:59 AM.

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