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  • #16
    Re: Gas Codes

    along with proximity to the ocean, paint needs maintenance and gal needs nothing for life.

    i've yet to fix an above ground gas leak done in gal pipe. but have repaired my share of leaks in above ground black pipe.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Gas Codes

      Interestingly enough, there is now a thread on Plumbing Zone asking plumbers in Florida if they have any problems with galvanize gas lines. So far they are three for three no issues.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Gas Codes

        Tell me I am wrong all you want. Run every post you wish on every forum available. None of that will change what I have seen, where I saw it, or how I feel about it.

        I am tired of the arguement in a forum who's advocates and number one's don't care. It's in the codes. Have at it!

        My arguement needs to go back to the powers that be. Not here.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Gas Codes

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          When you're looking at painting hundreds of feet of black pipe for a roof full of gas fired units, galvanize is the smart choice.

          Mark
          Try reading what I have said.

          I have not opposed galvy on the exterior. If you want to keep slamming atleast get your facts right.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Gas Codes

            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
            Interestingly enough, there is now a thread on Plumbing Zone asking plumbers in Florida if they have any problems with galvanize gas lines. So far they are three for three no issues.

            Mark
            What areas of Florida and what is the location of the pipe? Inside, outside, in contact with the ground, or setting on a hardware shelf?

            I never had a problem with a piece that was never installed either...if that makes you feel better.

            Even the green epoxy coated anodeless risers unwrapped coming out of ground fail in 2 years at the ground level +/- 2".

            Galvy and factory coated pipe have been wrongfully glorified.

            There are more inland areas that see fewer failures. But don't think you are going to get away with throwing that out point blank and get away without details.

            I was the president of the Treasure Coast Fuel Gas Assoc. and have heard from others on this topic in monthly meetings. The failures are real and a service tech can nearly date the installation by failure date depending on the type of pipe and location.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Gas Codes

              Originally posted by Birddoggiest View Post
              I always run galvy outside. It is not the norm here also and have been called for it by inspectors who couldn't defend their position. It is leagle and I will always use it outside.
              What do you run inside? That has been the real topic.

              Galvy can make sense outside and may have less risk.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Gas Codes

                Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
                Here in Mich, in the older houses that have the gas meter located inside the dwelling, the gas co, for many years has been moving the meters to the outside of the house, & in many cases replacing the service pipe too.
                Some of these meters were in the basement, on the driveway side of the house. So when the new meters are installed, the gas co connects up to the first fitting in the house, & run new piping to new gas meter location, which in alot of cases is quite lengthy. Every single job that I have seen the gas co do, has been galvanized pipe & fittings. I don't recall ever seeing anything but galv. materials on any of their trucks. Even when they upgrade a gas meter, such as for a generator, they use all galv. nipples & fittings, always, inside & outside. Just saying! Even though 99.9% of the existing gas lines they connect to is black pipe.
                My guess is the management there reads the Chronicals of Galvy Lovers, written by some here, and minimized truck stock by making a decision.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Gas Codes

                  Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                  Tell me I am wrong all you want. Run every post you wish on every forum available. None of that will change what I have seen, where I saw it, or how I feel about it.

                  I am tired of the arguement in a forum who's advocates and number one's don't care. It's in the codes. Have at it!

                  My arguement needs to go back to the powers that be. Not here.
                  I didn't post to the thread I simply read it.

                  Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                  Try reading what I have said.

                  I have not opposed galvy on the exterior. If you want to keep slamming atleast get your facts right.
                  That was not a reply to you, it was a statement of facts.

                  Originally posted by Kevin Jones View Post
                  What areas of Florida and what is the location of the pipe? Inside, outside, in contact with the ground, or setting on a hardware shelf?

                  I never had a problem with a piece that was never installed either...if that makes you feel better.

                  Even the green epoxy coated anodeless risers unwrapped coming out of ground fail in 2 years at the ground level +/- 2".

                  Galvy and factory coated pipe have been wrongfully glorified.

                  There are more inland areas that see fewer failures. But don't think you are going to get away with throwing that out point blank and get away without details.

                  I was the president of the Treasure Coast Fuel Gas Assoc. and have heard from others on this topic in monthly meetings. The failures are real and a service tech can nearly date the installation by failure date depending on the type of pipe and location.
                  I don't know any of the above as I did not make the posts. I just found it interesting there are two threads on two forums which involve galvanize gas lines with Florida being a topic in each.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Gas Codes

                    I still hold licenses in florida and keep in touch. It seems that there have been enough "problems" with galvy that the subject warrants discussion before something tragic happens. The original discussion centered around galvy and exposure to "salt in the atmosphere" but has since been directed more towards possible manufacturing defects that are hidden by the galvanized coating on the pipe. At any rate is seems that several florida counties have decided to ban it's use. I see the discussion as a positive because even though galvy has been used for many years without serious incident, the possibility still looms out there. Up here we are fortunate because we have never been able to use galvanized for gas under any circumstance. I think that since there are enough incidents to warrant discussion and in some cases prohibiting it's use, it would be reckless for any plumber or gas technician to dismiss the possibilities. I am fully aware that some have installed miles and miles of galvy without a single problem but that could very well be luck. Personally I find it disturbing that anyone would blindly defend the product without at least going through the evidence. I can't speak for the rest of you but for me, gas is dangerous stuff and if there is any doubt at all as to the integrity of the products used to convey it I will not use it. That is the very reason why I refuse to use CSST. Maybe it's fine now, but there are enough lingering doubts to keep me from putting that liability on the line.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Gas Codes

                      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                      I still hold licenses in florida and keep in touch. It seems that there have been enough "problems" with galvy that the subject warrants discussion before something tragic happens. The original discussion centered around galvy and exposure to "salt in the atmosphere" but has since been directed more towards possible manufacturing defects that are hidden by the galvanized coating on the pipe. At any rate is seems that several florida counties have decided to ban it's use. I see the discussion as a positive because even though galvy has been used for many years without serious incident, the possibility still looms out there. Up here we are fortunate because we have never been able to use galvanized for gas under any circumstance. I think that since there are enough incidents to warrant discussion and in some cases prohibiting it's use, it would be reckless for any plumber or gas technician to dismiss the possibilities. I am fully aware that some have installed miles and miles of galvy without a single problem but that could very well be luck. Personally I find it disturbing that anyone would blindly defend the product without at least going through the evidence. I can't speak for the rest of you but for me, gas is dangerous stuff and if there is any doubt at all as to the integrity of the products used to convey it I will not use it. That is the very reason why I refuse to use CSST. Maybe it's fine now, but there are enough lingering doubts to keep me from putting that liability on the line.
                      Can you give us some examples of the when, where and why? To be honest, I have never seen a problem in any of the States I work in.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Gas Codes

                        Mark, honestly, I can't. The lack of incidents reported to plumbing boards is as far as I can tell non existent. But that alone does not in my mind mean that the problem does not exist. If I was affected then I would be searching far and wide to find out as much as possible before making a decision. I believe Kevin has seen some failures though. I can see no ulterior motive for him to make a false claim there. That a thing does not happen wioth regularity does not make it any less dangerous. Remember that 99.9% of the time, there would never be a problem with unbonded CSST either.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Gas Codes

                          but remember that gal pipe is nothing more than steel pipe with a very thin coating of galvanizing.

                          so basically the black steel pipe is defective and the gal coating is all that's holding it together

                          is that what you're saying

                          i guess anything is possible, but i wouldn't loose sleep over it.

                          in 37 years, i've come across 1 piece of copper with a factory microscopic pin hole. took months to show up. does that mean all copper is defective

                          brand new products will have defects. i'm still waiting for defective gal pipe. i know the gal pipe of today is not what it is of years ago, but it still doesn't leak and it does hold test. it can be cut and threaded. it just doesn't hold up to water usage unless you can find and afford domestic gal pipe.

                          the only gal my 4 different supply house chains stock are domestic fittings. not the pipe or nipples.

                          spoke to our gas company today. they use gal pipe, nipples and fittings above ground.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Gas Codes

                            I thought I would add to this - hope it's okay as the section is called "professional plumbing discussions" and I'm not a professional plumber .

                            The one thing I've not seen (maybe I missed it) is what specific concerns the people who don't like using gal pipe have. To be more specific what exactly are the failures associated with galv pipe. Can you show examples and cases where this has been as issue. What exactly is the problem?

                            I have both the gas code and gas code handbook and I found an older copy of the CA plumbing code online and it seems like everything assciated with gas directly comes from the gas code like Mark said. They simply reference the gas code in most cases.

                            From what I read the gas code allows galv pipe as well as copper which I've not seen seen used but maybe some places are using it.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Gas Codes

                              Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                              I thought I would add to this - hope it's okay as the section is called "professional plumbing discussions" and I'm not a professional plumber .

                              The one thing I've not seen (maybe I missed it) is what specific concerns the people who don't like using gal pipe have. To be more specific what exactly are the failures associated with galv pipe. Can you show examples and cases where this has been as issue. What exactly is the problem?

                              I have both the gas code and gas code handbook and I found an older copy of the CA plumbing code online and it seems like everything assciated with gas directly comes from the gas code like Mark said. They simply reference the gas code in most cases.

                              From what I read the gas code allows galv pipe as well as copper which I've not seen seen used but maybe some places are using it.

                              Thanks Blue Can,your imput is appreciated

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Gas Codes

                                It is a known fact that galvy with bad gas will flake. This is stated by code as to the amount of viable contaminate. Flaking will block the inlet screens of gas valves, starve the unit, and cause incomplete combustion. That is a set of slow death to any piece of equipment and does present a health/safety factor.

                                Galvy has another failure issue. Yes it is accepted by code. The unfortunate part is that code does not call galvy what it is. Galvy is a bonded metal union. Being so it should have to conform to the minimum standards of the code at 1000 degrees. The bonding agents have a lower melting point and do not conform! If you take a leaking black iron fitting or pipe and run it through a hot dip process, then you can have a dangerous piece of pipe that does hold a pressure test.

                                I have seen this happen on a restaurant manifold line. The small flame was enough to open a seam line rip and flashed out across the kitchen. There were other hood systems that did their job and shut down the gas as well as put out the fire. Thankfully this happened after hours and nobody was hurt.

                                We would also see many failures every year with galvy fittings that were caught during pressure tests. Had I known 15 years ago I needed those pics and data details today? I would have kept them. The simple fact is that many jurisdictions do not allow the use of galvy. Galvy has several issues that limit its desire for use. It also has benefits outside and above ground only.

                                So 500 posts later it is finally understood that galvy hot dip can cover a black iron flaw.

                                Comment

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