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PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

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  • #16
    Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

    Maybe that's it, I always see it with a tube talon every 8 foot for support. It looks pretty rough, and i'm always afraid i'm going to break it.

    Originally posted by PLUMBER01 View Post
    I hate CPVC also..when it has been istalled wrong or a CPVC MIP or FIP is used instead of a brass trasition fitting or never had insulation around where needed, other than that, I personally don't mind it. I will use Cu as mush as I can and prefer that in the first place
    No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

      I'm a Pex fan before CPVC as well.

      CPVC is only rated for 140 degrees where a water heater has the potential to go above that. Flowguard gold is rated for 180 degrees, but I've been getting some calls in my area to fix leaks.

      I'm a copper fan like everyone else here. I blame the " new work" crowd and the builders for Pex being used.

      If Plumbers actually stuck together...we would be amazed at what we could accomplish.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

        Ill use cpvc for a relief line a water heater thats about it
        Never had pex near my van

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

          In almost 23 years I've never installed a single stick of pvc or cpvc in a home or business, that I can remember anyway. I think the stuff is cheap, looks horrible, and I just don't trust glued joints in a pressurized water system and frankly I don't like waiting for the glue to dry. When I make a joint I want it done right now, doesn't matter if it's black or galvanized, copper or pex. But pvc, no thanks.

          I've done dozens of re-pipes using Viega pex, love it. I didn't charge any less vs using copper, it was about the same price. I give the customer the choice.

          In the last year or so I've switched entirely to using the propress for all my copper and I do charge more now for the copper jobs because of the price of the propress fittings. Soldering joints is a thing of the past for my company.

          I like both joining methods, Viega pex and viega propress equally. Now days it's still the customers choice. I really think Viega is now king of the hill.

          Not all changes are good ones but a few do come along that stick and become the norm. I believe we're seeing a major change in our industry right now.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

            WOW Ironranger you would have hated the six story hotel we finished a year ago. all CPVC Flow Guard Gold and Sch. 80 for pipes above 1-1/2 So far no problems or call backs
            I don't bite my finger nails, I KNOW when payday is, and yes, it can run uphill when it gets blocked(or you install a grinder pump) so HA!!!!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

              Hey, how come you charging mo for pro-press? Rick says it's cheaper than soldering
              sigpic

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              • #22
                Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                Hey, how come you charging mo for pro-press? Rick says it's cheaper than soldering
                it certainly is. that's the reason the other plumber called me in at the 10 story medical building the other night. he knew that draining down the building and working in the ceiling above medical x-ray equipment was not going to happen with solder and or a jet swet. of course the plumber and building engineer had never seen it action.

                something tells me i just did a paying demo for propress as i believe the plumber and building will be buying their own propress system.

                the building would not have brought me in if they thought it was more expensive. i had given them a price sight unseen and they had me come out that night.

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

                  I don't own a ProPress but if I did I would charge more to use it as well.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

                    correct mark, but remember you're not using a torch or solder/ flux and you're not sitting around waiting for water to drain.

                    not to mention all the smoke detectors and fire sprinkler heads that you don't have to worry about.

                    so all in all, a plumber with a propress compared to a plumber with a torch, the plumber with the propress will smoke the plumber and his torch.

                    don't make me wait till ben gets back for me to prove this again.

                    sure the copper cutting contest was fun and ended in a close race that i won, but a propress vrs. solder contest wouldn't even be a race, it would be a killing

                    anyone want to race me, i'll put up a propress machine up against $2500. worth of your solder equipment and tools.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

                      [QUOTE=PLUMBER RICK;306834]it certainly is. that's the reason the other plumber called me in at the 10 story medical building the other night. he knew that draining down the building and working in the ceiling above medical x-ray equipment was not going to happen with solder and or a jet swet. of course the plumber and building engineer had never seen it action.

                      So you are saying that before Pro-Press had been invented this repair could not have been made? Could not have taken the pressure off, cut the pipe, stuffed the jet swett in there and soldered a ball valve in? Come on, we did and still do repair pipes without Pro-Press. Handy, yes. A necessity, never. we have one. It sits on the tool shelf in the shop. Any of the 9 plumbers we employ can use it whenever they want. It hasn't left the shelf in close to a year. When we first got it we were going to pipe boiler radiant heat manifolds with it. Turns out to cost almost 3 times as much as soldering the manifold or buying one pre-made and they come out crooked and look like crap. Of all the tools that have been bought over the years and turned out to be a waste of money, I would have to put the Pro-Press at the top of the list. And for those guys using it to crimp Pex, that just plain ridiculous. a manual tool is lighter, faster, gets into tighter places, costs hundreds less and the battery does not die.
                      Last edited by NHMaster3015; 08-12-2010, 10:19 AM.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        Hey, how come you charging mo for pro-press? Rick says it's cheaper than soldering


                        [QUOTE=NHMaster3015;306838]
                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                        it certainly is. that's the reason the other plumber called me in at the 10 story medical building the other night. he knew that draining down the building and working in the ceiling above medical x-ray equipment was not going to happen with solder and or a jet swet. of course the plumber and building engineer had never seen it action.

                        So you are saying that before Pro-Press had been invented this repair could not have been made? Could not have taken the pressure off, cut the pipe, stuffed the jet swet in there and soldered a ball valve in? Come on, we did and still do repair pipes without Pro-Press. Handy, yes. A necessity, never. we have one. It sits on the tool shelf in the shop. Any of the 9 plumbers we employ can use it whenever they want. It hasn't left the shelf in close to a year. When we first got it we were going to pipe boiler radiant heat manifolds with it. Turns out to cost almost 3 times as much as soldering the manifold or buying one pre-made and they come out crooked and look like crap. Of all the tools that have been bought over the years and turned out to be a waste of money, I would have to put the Pro-Press at the top of the list. And for those guys using it to crimp Pex, that just plain ridiculous. a manual tool is lighter, faster, gets into tighter places, costs hundreds less and the battery does not die.
                        ]

                        you need to read the original question you posted.

                        of course i soldered with water in the line. i've done 6'' copper in between floors when the building had no water for 2 days and they brought me in at midnight. i finished in 5 hours by myself when they had a crew for 2 days.

                        now with propress, i would finish in minutes. show me you can prep and solder a 1/2''- 4'' copper fitting in 5 seconds. i'll show you that i can do it and not even worry about water running or dripping.

                        show me your inventory of long sweep 90's. every propress 90 i have is long sweep and type k or heavier.

                        don't know why none of your guys use it, is it because you as the owner don't approve and therefore the guys don't use it. there is not 1 plumber or building engineer i've showed and used it on that doesn't want 1.

                        if you buy a rolls royce, you better have the money to buy the gas for it

                        i know my hourly rate is more expensive than the price of a fitting. or in this case a few fittings. even on my commercial heater installations with 2'' fittings, i still spec and use propress.

                        as i've discovered before, half the country or plumber here are not using water soluble flux. when you have water in a system that wont drain down, you'll soon discover propress is the way to go.

                        please don't tell me you have jet swet's from 1/2''- 4'' and use them every time. then install a 4'' ball valve or union.

                        so the question has been answered. propress is less expensive with the time and materials i would otherwise have to resort to.

                        now who wants to buy my jet swet's

                        cause i have 7 propress machines waiting to lose a bet

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

                          How much for the Jet Swets. I'm more interested in making money.

                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Hey, how come you charging mo for pro-press? Rick says it's cheaper than soldering

                            I offer pex or ProPress copper for re-pipes. I charge more for the ProPress job vs the Pex job. I don't offer copper using solder anymore, I refuse and will walk if that's what they want. It's how I'm set up, it's what I want to do, my choice, my company.
                            Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way I roll.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

                              Yea, I just like yanking Rick's chain

                              I will concede that if you are working with a lot of 3 and 4" copper, maybe, just maybe the pro-press would be handy, but and this is a big but, how often do you have to use it for it to pay itself back?

                              As for the owner disapproving of it that just aint so. Hell, I bought the damn thing. It's there, on the shelf. Anybody that thinks they need it is more than welcome to go for it. Most of my guys don't like the damn thing for all the reasons I mentioned above. Besides which, if they did, I'd have to buy 9 or 10 of them at 15 bills a wack which is a whole lot of money for the use they would get.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: PEX being phased out by Jan 1st?

                                [quote=plumber rick;306841]

                                Originally posted by nhmaster3015 View Post
                                ]

                                you need to read the original question you posted.

                                Of course i soldered with water in the line. I've done 6'' copper in between floors when the building had no water for 2 days and they brought me in at midnight. I finished in 5 hours by myself when they had a crew for 2 days.

                                Well, i don't solder with water in the line, i stuff a jet swett in there and the appropriate fitting. Either a ball valve or a union or a drip coupling.

                                Now with propress, i would finish in minutes. Show me you can prep and solder a 1/2''- 4'' copper fitting in 5 seconds. I'll show you that i can do it and not even worry about water running or dripping.

                                5 seconds is nice but i'm charging the full hour anyway and the difference is probably 3 minutes.


                                Show me your inventory of long sweep 90's. Every propress 90 i have is long sweep and type k or heavier.

                                Why do you need long sweep 90's. The code does not require them and neither is there a need for type k with a soldered fitting.

                                Don't know why none of your guys use it, is it because you as the owner don't approve and therefore the guys don't use it. There is not 1 plumber or building engineer i've showed and used it on that doesn't want 1.

                                Sure, everyone is impressed, right up till they have to pay for the darn thing and find out fittings are 3 to 10 times more expensive.

                                If you buy a rolls royce, you better have the money to buy the gas for it:d

                                it's the customer that bears the cost, or at least it better be if you want to keep a sign on the door.


                                I know my hourly rate is more expensive than the price of a fitting. Or in this case a few fittings. Even on my commercial heater installations with 2'' fittings, i still spec and use propress.

                                You have it, might as well use it but don't even begin to tell me it's more economical. I have run the cost analysis down to the penny. It is almost twice as expensive to use as soldering is even given the time savings.

                                As i've discovered before, half the country or plumber here are not using water soluble flux. When you have water in a system that wont drain down, you'll soon discover propress is the way to go.

                                We don't use water soluble at all around these parts.... Yet. It's not required by code here.

                                Please don't tell me you have jet swet's from 1/2''- 4'' and use them every time. Then install a 4'' ball valve or union.

                                I have 1/2 through 2" on the truck. 3 and 4" at the shop. All 9 vans are equipped the same.

                                So the question has been answered. Propress is less expensive with the time and materials i would otherwise have to resort to.

                                Take some time and really run the numbers. Be fair and then get back to us.

                                Now who wants to buy my jet swet's

                                Cause i have 7 propress machines waiting to lose a bet

                                fool me once........ One man x 7 propress machines = money tied up needlessly.

                                Rick.
                                Last edited by NHMaster3015; 08-12-2010, 01:10 PM.
                                sigpic

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