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  • #31
    Re: water soluble flux

    as far as i know PA does not enforcing the code ,i never was asked what type i use
    Charlie

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    • #32
      Re: water soluble flux

      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
      coppermate does not meet the astm b 813 standard.

      this is the product from the same manufactor that does meet the astm b 813 requirement. http://www.canfieldmetals.com/aquabrite_flux.htm


      is california the only state enforcing the code

      rick.
      How much enforcement are you experiencing when you used to work and use flux?

      Seriously though, is this one of the things your inspector asks to see on the job? Do they immediately ask for the Flux can out of your truck? Does he have some sort of spray test to show if you've used the wrong flux? How often do you, Adam, Mark, Tooly, others get quizzed about it on your jobs? 50%? 75%? Every time?

      Thanks.

      J.C.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: water soluble flux

        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
        How much enforcement are you experiencing when you used to work and use flux?

        Seriously though, is this one of the things your inspector asks to see on the job? Do they immediately ask for the Flux can out of your truck? Does he have some sort of spray test to show if you've used the wrong flux? How often do you, Adam, Mark, Tooly, others get quizzed about it on your jobs? 50%? 75%? Every time?

        Thanks.

        J.C.
        Just like the reaming.
        They only check the one job that you hire a new guy and he did not do it.

        They occassionally ask.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: water soluble flux

          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
          Just like the reaming.
          They only check the one job that you hire a new guy and he did not do it.

          They occassionally ask.
          About the same here.

          Thanks.

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: water soluble flux

            when it first came out, there were rumors that the inspector had a test for it. never saw them actually do a test.

            but any plumber who has worked with the water soluble flux should be able to visually see the difference in the finished product.

            supply houses don't have a stock of non soluble flux. it's the home centers and hardware stores that still seem to carry the non code stuff.

            problem comes down the road when and if you get brought up in litigation. just ask mark what could happen.

            i've repaired both above and below ground leaks that i know were flux related.

            the question for everyone is, if it's required, why are more plumbers on this forum not using it, than are using it?

            is it because you know that it is very difficult to get good results on service work?

            i guarantee if you start using the required flux astm b 813, you too would be using propress

            i've been using the flux for 15-16 years and for the last 5 or so years (3/2/05) propress. never had 1 problem with propress, but had my fair share of flux related soldering challenges. this coming from a plumber that had a 99.9% success rate with regular flux since 1975. up to 6'' copper on new construction.

            all i can say is, soldering with regular flux is a no brainer, soldering with the required flux can be challenging and time consuming on wet lines.

            propressing is never an issue

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: water soluble flux

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              when it first came out, there were rumors that the inspector had a test for it. never saw them actually do a test.

              but any plumber who has worked with the water soluble flux should be able to visually see the difference in the finished product.

              supply houses don't have a stock of non soluble flux. it's the home centers and hardware stores that still seem to carry the non code stuff.

              problem comes down the road when and if you get brought up in litigation. just ask mark what could happen.

              i've repaired both above and below ground leaks that i know were flux related.

              the question for everyone is, if it's required, why are more plumbers on this forum not using it, than are using it?

              is it because you know that it is very difficult to get good results on service work?


              i guarantee if you start using the required flux astm b 813, you too would be using propress

              i've been using the flux for 15-16 years and for the last 5 or so years (3/2/05) propress. never had 1 problem with propress, but had my fair share of flux related soldering challenges. this coming from a plumber that had a 99.9% success rate with regular flux since 1975. up to 6'' copper on new construction.

              all i can say is, soldering with regular flux is a no brainer, soldering with the required flux can be challenging and time consuming on wet lines.

              propressing is never an issue

              rick.
              I believe it's not used as much for a couple of reasons.

              1) Although Mark has shown evidence, and some have worked on Flux related problems, the percentage of problems is so low that most don't feel it's a real factor. Even in the longterm.

              And as Mark said in post 10-"I agree but the problem comes in when the person doing the soldering uses the flux improperly. I doubt you or I would ever have a problem but the Codes were not written for skilled plumbers as they are minimum standards."

              Mark

              Based on that, if a plumber is skilled. No problem or reason to change.

              2) Because it is easier to work with. No need to even beat at that question.

              J.C.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: water soluble flux

                Will hot water melt and wash away the old flux....then does the problem only occur on cold water lines?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: water soluble flux

                  Originally posted by Chemeng View Post
                  Will hot water melt and wash away the old flux....then does the problem only occur on cold water lines?
                  Unfortunately not

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: water soluble flux

                    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                    I believe it's not used as much for a couple of reasons.

                    1) Although Mark has shown evidence, and some have worked on Flux related problems, the percentage of problems is so low that most don't feel it's a real factor. Even in the longterm.

                    And as Mark said in post 10-"I agree but the problem comes in when the person doing the soldering uses the flux improperly. I doubt you or I would ever have a problem but the Codes were not written for skilled plumbers as they are minimum standards."

                    Mark

                    Based on that, if a plumber is skilled. No problem or reason to change.

                    2) Because it is easier to work with. No need to even beat at that question.

                    J.C.
                    you're correct jc. but we're not the ones to write the code. even if i agree with you it's still against the code to use the regular flux

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: water soluble flux

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      you're correct jc. but we're not the ones to write the code. even if i agree with you it's still against the code to use the regular flux

                      rick.
                      Understood. And sometimes the code is wrong & changed back and forth.

                      Some even install galvanized gas pipe by code.

                      J.C.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: water soluble flux

                        Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                        Understood. And sometimes the code is wrong & changed back and forth.

                        Some even install galvanized gas pipe by code.

                        J.C.
                        exactly, because it's approved by our code. the flux is not

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: water soluble flux

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          exactly, because it's approved by our code. the flux is not

                          rick.
                          Currently.

                          You got that nursery in perfect order yet?

                          J.C.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: water soluble flux

                            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                            Currently.

                            You got that nursery in perfect order yet?

                            J.C.
                            just graduated today in baby class 101. got the diploma to prove it

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: water soluble flux

                              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                              just graduated today in baby class 101. got the diploma to prove it

                              rick.
                              Congratulations. Gonna' be so proud & big headed soon you're gonna' have to buy new pillows.

                              Very happy for you and Mrs. J.

                              J.C.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: water soluble flux

                                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                                when it first came out, there were rumors that the inspector had a test for it. never saw them actually do a test.

                                but any plumber who has worked with the water soluble flux should be able to visually see the difference in the finished product.

                                supply houses don't have a stock of non soluble flux. it's the home centers and hardware stores that still seem to carry the non code stuff.

                                problem comes down the road when and if you get brought up in litigation. just ask mark what could happen.

                                i've repaired both above and below ground leaks that i know were flux related.

                                the question for everyone is, if it's required, why are more plumbers on this forum not using it, than are using it?

                                is it because you know that it is very difficult to get good results on service work?

                                i guarantee if you start using the required flux astm b 813, you too would be using propress

                                i've been using the flux for 15-16 years and for the last 5 or so years (3/2/05) propress. never had 1 problem with propress, but had my fair share of flux related soldering challenges. this coming from a plumber that had a 99.9% success rate with regular flux since 1975. up to 6'' copper on new construction.

                                all i can say is, soldering with regular flux is a no brainer, soldering with the required flux can be challenging and time consuming on wet lines.

                                propressing is never an issue

                                rick.
                                I think we have to take California out of the equation here. They have codes for codes for christ sakes. California is in it's own category all by itself.

                                Comment

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