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  • #16
    Re: question on orphaned water heater

    As I think back about selling my last home, especially now with the drop in home sales, at the 11th hour the buyer said that the roof had no ridge vent.
    Well 18 years ago when the 30 year roof went on, they weren't installing those yet. Now I did have plenty of soffit vents and gable vents so most of us know a ridge vent would have little or no effect.

    But to fight over a $500 allowance, I was not about to blow my home from selling.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: question on orphaned water heater

      Originally posted by harveymasons View Post

      @ Flux, as far as the 14 yea rold water heater Wouldn't you agree that @ 14 years old one should take proactive action and replace the water heater? The alternative is waiting for it to go and dealing with 40+ gallons of water on your finished floor right? NOT trying to be rude but that is just my thinking on the water heater. From what I am told the life expentancy is 10 - 15 years. BTW- it is a rheem water heater.
      You forget that we as professionals are on the other end of the debate, and deal with these situations all of the time. I can't tell you how many times I get a phone call from a customer saying.."We are selling our house and the buyers/home inspector said we NEED to have this replaced". I'll go there and there will be a laundry list of things, and most are not legit reasons.

      I'm just calling it the way I see it...you're trying to get something for nothing.

      Life expectancy? Do you really want to go down that road?

      If you were trying to do that to me..I'd tell you to get lost.

      What you should be buying is a brand new home..not one already built.

      Just my .02

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: question on orphaned water heater

        "I'm just calling it the way I see it...you're trying to get something for nothing."

        Sorry to say I disagree with you. I am Not trying to get anything for nothing. There is clearly an issue with venting on this orphaned water heater and based on it's age of 14 years I don't think it is at all that unreasonable to ask for replacement or a credit. OR at very least to line chimney.

        "Life expectancy? Do you really want to go down that road?"

        14 years is pretty close to end of average service life of a water heater, well at least thats the perception of most plumbers I have talked to. I even spoke to Rheem and they told me 10 - 15 years based on water characteristics. Based on this I don't want to buy a house that I will be needing to replace the water heater right off the bat so I can sleep at night. Granted I am sure there are water heaters that have lasted past this but thats more the excxeption then the rule......

        "What you should be buying is a brand new home..not one already built. "

        Now based on this discussion that is about the most ridiculous thing said yet..... But what can I say they don't make houses like they use to lol

        thx for your .02 cents but I'll agree to disagree with you.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: question on orphaned water heater

          Here is a link for life "expectancy" items in a home.

          Check it out.

          http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-ad...pectancy.shtml

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: question on orphaned water heater

            Originally posted by harveymasons View Post

            Sorry to say I disagree with you. I am Not trying to get anything for nothing. There is clearly an issue with venting on this orphaned water heater and based on it's age of 14 years I don't think it is at all that unreasonable to ask for replacement or a credit. OR at very least to line chimney.

            14 years is pretty close to end of average service life of a water heater, well at least thats the perception of most plumbers I have talked to. I even spoke to Rheem and they told me 10 - 15 years based on water characteristics. Based on this I don't want to buy a house that I will be needing to replace the water heater right off the bat so I can sleep at night. Granted I am sure there are water heaters that have lasted past this but thats more the excxeption then the rule......
            Your chimney issue I agree with 100%.

            But your water heater isn't an issue RIGHT NOW!

            Check out my link I just posted above..as you will see MANY items in the home have a "life expectancy" and if you're going to use and apply that philosophy..you need to buy a new home. I'll bet the house that many things in the home you're buying are well past life expectancy.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: question on orphaned water heater

              Did your home inspector do a combstion anaylisis on the water heater to see if there is really a vent issue?
              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
              Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
              Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: question on orphaned water heater

                I understand that items may work past their life expectancy but with a water heater you run the risk of it leaking and or worse rotting out and breaking causing serious flooding etc.....

                I am not disagreeing with you that you can get more life out of the expected time given for certain items but wouldn't you agree that it just makes sense if you have a 14 year old water heater to think about replacing it? I would think that you are inviting trouble keeping it until you are forced to rerplace it.

                If it were 5,7 or 10 years old I would not try and get the owners to replacae the unit as I would expect several more years out of it. And you never know it could get at year 6,9 or 11 as well it's just that @ 14 years you are expecting it to go soon.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: question on orphaned water heater

                  Originally posted by harveymasons View Post
                  I understand that items may work past their life expectancy but with a water heater you run the risk of it leaking and or worse rotting out and breaking causing serious flooding etc.....

                  I am not disagreeing with you that you can get more life out of the expected time given for certain items but wouldn't you agree that it just makes sense if you have a 14 year old water heater to think about replacing it? I would think that you are inviting trouble keeping it until you are forced to rerplace it.

                  If it were 5,7 or 10 years old I would not try and get the owners to replacae the unit as I would expect several more years out of it. And you never know it could get at year 6,9 or 11 as well it's just that @ 14 years you are expecting it to go soon.
                  Let me answer your question this way...

                  When you go to sell the house..let me know so I can play the "life expectancy" game, to see if I want to buy it. If you leave that Microwave there when you move, and it's past it's life expectancy..it could possibly cause a fire, burn the house down & kill my family in the process.

                  Sounds silly..doesn't it?

                  Look..I understand where you're coming from.

                  But if the water heater isn't leaking, and it's functioning properly..there is no issue. There is no code or law about the age of a water heater...just peace of mind from the potential buyer.

                  Maybe you and the owner can work something out..but they have no obligation to replace the water heater right now, if there are no issues with it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: question on orphaned water heater

                    ahh sewerRatz a familiar face! I enjoy your posts on the drain cleaning forum.

                    NO, inspector did not do a combstion anaylisis. His job was to point out any issues that he saw may need additional attention. He did confirm that tere was no liner in the brick and morter chimney and suggested one be installed if the water heater was going to continue to be vented this way.

                    But there are other issues asides from just the back drafting issue as well. In the winter time all that cold air in the chimney is going to cause the exaust gas trying to escape to condense and basically rain inside my chimney which will definitely speed up the decaying of the inside of the chimney so that is an issue as well.

                    I just don't want to be plagued with these issues later on. I'd rahter have them addressed now before we close.

                    as always thx in advance,
                    harvey

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: question on orphaned water heater

                      So let me see if I have this right. Originally the furnace and the WH were tied into the existing chimney. The furnace flu was removed because of the newer installation leaving only the WH to vent into the existing chimney right?

                      Maybe I'm missing something here but what's the problem? As far as sizing of the old chimney, back then they didn't do that. If you had a chimney they tied whatever they could into the thing. They were very standard in sizing.

                      Did the WH and the Furnace ALWAYS run at the same time to create enough heat and draft? Of course it didn't. The furnace never ran at all during the summer, leaving only the WH running as it's doing right now. Was there a problem in the past over all those years, don't think so.

                      I say the argument about the sizing of the chimney is ridiculous. I see nothing wrong with the set up at all. Seems to me the poster only wants a new water heater. Sorry but I would tell ya to take the house or leave it, it's working fine and there is no problem.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: question on orphaned water heater

                        Harvey, it appears that your offer was on condition of passing a home inspection. It did not pass so you can modify your offer, back out of the deal or live with the findings. I still would not go to the HO and ask them to have the work done. I would not expect the HO to do anything but the cheapest option which still leaves you with a WH that you would like to replace. I would ask for the $500, put your own $500 with it and get a decent direct vent WH, solves both problems

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: question on orphaned water heater

                          Originally posted by ironranger View Post
                          So let me see if I have this right. Originally the furnace and the WH were tied into the existing chimney. The furnace flu was removed because of the newer installation leaving only the WHO to vent into the existing chimney right?

                          Maybe I'm missing something here but what's the problem? As far as sizing of the old chimney, back then they didn't do that. If you had a chimney they tied whatever they could into the thing. They were very standard in sizing.

                          Did the WHO and the Furnace ALWAYS run at the same time to create enough heat and draft? Of course it didn't. The furnace never ran at all during the summer, leaving only the WH running as it's doing right now. Was there a problem in the past over all those years, don't think so.

                          I say the argument about the sizing of the chimney is ridiculous. I see nothing wrong with the set up at all. Seems to me the poster only wants a new water heater. Sorry but I would tell ya to take the house or leave it, it's working fine and there is no problem.
                          Now thats the funniest joke I ever heard!

                          Venting is covered by NFPA54 which contains the National Fuel Gas Code, which most inspectors and gas companies follow, subjecting the existing chimney to be red-tagged.

                          Harvey you are correct in assuming that although the water heater may vent alone in the summer, without the assistance of the main heat source to supplement drafting the water heater may or will spill or condense which is acidic.

                          You can drive down a street and pick the homes out with similar circumstances by the spalling, missing mortar, effervescence, the last 2-3' of the chimney.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: question on orphaned water heater

                            Yea I think it's funny too but it's reality. The gas company isn't going to red tag anything because the chimney isn't lined, that's reality too. If that was the case almost every house in 6 towns in my area would be red tagged, they're not..

                            I think the entire home inspection business is nothing but a racket anyway.

                            Maybe I should become a home inspector. Get paid to inspect, give my opinion and not be responsible for anything. Just sign here!!!! Yea baby!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: question on orphaned water heater

                              To the original poster, did the inspector red tag the chimney and shut down the Water Heater like he should have?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: question on orphaned water heater

                                To the original poster: Call the local gas provider and to get a second opinion call the code authority in your area and explain the current installtion of the water heater. Ask their opinion and what will need to be done when that 14 yr old water heater leaks and a new one is installed as far as code compliance and safety.

                                I know for a fact if our gas provider found that the heater would be shut down and red tagged. No appliance can vent into a un-lined chimney here period.

                                Comment

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