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  • #16
    Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

    Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
    If the house is active no thermal expansion will occur...most of the time. It most likley would happen the most while everyone was asleep and no water being used...but the ice maker coming on can also relieve pressure...or a dripping faucet....or toilet or anything leaking A temp and pressure relief valve is not a reliable device for thermal expansion control. I have done reading were the pressure was over 225# and the relief valve did not dump.....install a new valve and it went to 190psi before it started to drissle.

    Ok relief valves dumping that extra water may go un-noticed. Or just plain ignored. This can cause a build of mineral deposits in the relief line restricting it.
    Have you seen many fail to prompt this conversation. I am not doubting you if you had just I havent and I am of the school that you cant protect everyone from everything unless you are from cali, then you just have to put a warning label on it that it causes cancer

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

      Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
      Have you seen many fail to prompt this conversation. I am not doubting you if you had just I havent and I am of the school that you cant protect everyone from everything unless you are from cali, then you just have to put a warning label on it that it causes cancer
      Sure I've seen them fail. people dont do proper maintenance. We are required to install them in some areas and the customer may not even have a closed system....so the tank is not really doing anything. Doubt if you wish and one day ye shall learn the hard way.

      very read the instructions that come with a tank? Ever notice how they tell you to install the tank as to prevent water damage of it should rupture? Check into and get back at me

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

        Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
        Have you seen many fail to prompt this conversation. I am not doubting you if you had just I havent and I am of the school that you cant protect everyone from everything unless you are from cali, then you just have to put a warning label on it that it causes cancer
        True. We've all seen the upstairs bathroom flood & destroy everything. The water heater fail and flood the living space. A simple icemaker flood a whole house too.

        Next we can start with Type K copper, brazed, then scoped from an independent laboratory. Treatment systems for the perfect chemistry for human consumption and to make the plumbing last the longest. Floodstops at every fixture. RPZ's before the Floodstops. Get it?

        There will always be something else and a weak link. Don't think it's possible to address them all.

        J.C.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

          Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
          Sure I've seen them fail. people dont do proper maintenance. We are required to install them in some areas and the customer may not even have a closed system....so the tank is not really doing anything. Doubt if you wish and one day ye shall learn the hard way.

          very read the instructions that come with a tank? Ever notice how they tell you to install the tank as to prevent water damage of it should rupture? Check into and get back at me
          That's nothing more than a legal get out to me. Where is that magical place?

          Almost any place it's installed can cause water "damage" if it should rupture.

          J.C.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
            True. We've all seen the upstairs bathroom flood & destroy everything. The water heater fail and flood the living space. A simple icemaker flood a whole house too.

            Next we can start with Type K copper, brazed, then scoped from an independent laboratory. Treatment systems for the perfect chemistry for human consumption and to make the plumbing last the longest. Floodstops at every fixture. RPZ's before the Floodstops. Get it?

            There will always be something else and a weak link. Don't think it's possible to address them all.

            J.C.
            Properly designed systems is the answer. The simple answer to protect a home from a thermal expansion tank rupturing is to locate the tank in an area that can get wet.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

              What if my copper piping ruptures though. I know it can you know it can just like supplies, washing machine hoses Well X Troll tank, baseboard heat. I know that an expansion tank can rupture but so can anything else. I may have not been in this business as long as you and I do not know everything, so I dont want you to think I am just a wise a$$ kid.

              I just dont know how far we have to go in this society to protect ourselves from stuff like this. I cant help but think that the insurance companies have had some say in the wording of the instructions that warn of leaking water so they dont have to cover possible damage.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

                Originally posted by wrench spinner View Post
                What if my copper piping ruptures though. I know it can you know it can just like supplies, washing machine hoses Well X Troll tank, baseboard heat. I know that an expansion tank can rupture but so can anything else. I may have not been in this business as long as you and I do not know everything, so I dont want you to think I am just a wise a$$ kid.

                I just dont know how far we have to go in this society to protect ourselves from stuff like this. I cant help but think that the insurance companies have had some say in the wording of the instructions that warn of leaking water so they dont have to cover possible damage.
                Hey no hard feelings. Its just a discussion. I agree with you about how everything has all of the warnings and labels that pass off the liability to the plumber basically with restrictions that just are not easily accomplished in the real world. Thats why we have insurance I guess.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

                  Unless there is a check valve on the water heater, it is perfectly legal to put the expansion tank on a cold line in the crawlspace. Much less likely to cause damage if it ruptures. It's also much less likely to be noticed until the leak is major.
                  No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

                    Make everything in the house water proof? Simple. Not really.
                    But don't you wonder sometimes, why they can't make it that way. Drywall for instance, why can't they make something better? I'm not talkin shower walls either, but the living space in houses. Everything else is plastic, why not plastic wall board, plastic floor & ceiling joists, or plastic floors, or roofs ect..... Now, the type of materials we use gets just a little bit of water exposure, & it's a disaster. Totally rediculous.

                    And just wait to see how many disasters, &/or lawsuits occurr when they start requiring fire sprinklers systems installed in residential homes.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

                      have seen some custom homes built out of steel studs. true square walls.

                      but they still have drywall that will mold if left wet, along with wall and ceiling insulation.

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

                        Y
                        Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
                        Make everything in the house water proof? Simple. Not really.
                        But don't you wonder sometimes, why they can't make it that way. Drywall for instance, why can't they make something better? I'm not talkin shower walls either, but the living space in houses. Everything else is plastic, why not plastic wall board, plastic floor & ceiling joists, or plastic floors, or roofs ect..... Now, the type of materials we use gets just a little bit of water exposure, & it's a disaster. Totally rediculous.

                        And just wait to see how many disasters, &/or lawsuits occurr when they start requiring fire sprinklers systems installed in residential homes.
                        My God man...are we not addicted to petroleum products enough already?. Now you want to start building walls and floors with plastics

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

                          Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                          Y

                          My God man...are we not addicted to petroleum products enough already?. Now you want to start building walls and floors with plastics
                          Anything waterproof, was what I meant. Good point about petroleum products though. Guess I'm just thinkin out loud.

                          Enough now about thermal exp. tanks LOL

                          But seriously, why can't they make an inexpensive "outer jacket" type cover around the whole tank, with a drain on bottom (or side depending on horizontal or vertical mounting) that you could pipe to a drain, or safe termination? Kind of how a water heater tank is. Just can't make this outer jacket out of plastic, or PC will be on me. Maybe make it out of hollowed out tree trunks?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

                            Originally posted by Don the plumber View Post
                            Anything waterproof, was what I meant. Good point about petroleum products though. Guess I'm just thinkin out loud.

                            Enough now about thermal exp. tanks LOL

                            But seriously, why can't they make an inexpensive "outer jacket" type cover around the whole tank, with a drain on bottom (or side depending on horizontal or vertical mounting) that you could pipe to a drain, or safe termination? Kind of how a water heater tank is. Just can't make this outer jacket out of plastic, or PC will be on me. Maybe make it out of hollowed out tree trunks?

                            You have posted the solution i was hoping to hear. A tank with a cheap outer shell with a 1" drain connection would be perfect.....just pipe it into the water heater pan or to the outside. We use 1.5" here for water heater pan drains......its city code requirment. When i posted this thread thats what i was hoping some one would come up with to validate my thoughts. It should be made and availale for those who want that extra protection for an extra 30 bucks or so.

                            It could be homemade but it would not be pretty...but it would work.
                            Last edited by TheMaster; 09-02-2010, 05:14 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

                              Hey Master ,You ever worry about the Galvy coating on a gas line giving out in a house fire ?
                              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Thermal Expansion Tanks

                                Originally posted by toolaholic View Post
                                Hey Master ,You ever worry about the Galvy coating on a gas line giving out in a house fire ?
                                You've been on the mark lately Pops!

                                J.C.

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