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  • #31
    Well gentlemen, If any of you are still reading this that chastised me so bad about that practice in the first place, You will be pleased to hear that Saturday night my trainee and I put in a cleanout in a vent in a closet in a cape cod. Two no hub bands and a 3" Cleanout tee. I also made sure that my trainee would not carry on that horrible practice that i learned from my trainer of cutting the hole in the pipe and slapping on a fernco. We used a Ridgid R1000 Angle Grinder to make quick work of the job. It is probably my favorite tool, must be something about 8 amps of power and 11,000 rpms that fits in the palm of my hands. Some of you may ask, why did you cut the c/o in the second floor closet instead of in the basement- hung sewer.

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    • #32
      Good job Theron, glad to see a hardworking man better his tradecraft.
      Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

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      • #33
        Utah,

        Thanks for following up on that unsafe contractor. Even though its thousands of miles away from here its still good to know that the proper officials have been made aware of those idiots. Hopefully the Building and Safety department will watch these bozo's and keep them from killing someone and undermining peoples homes.

        Its very disappointing that OSHA is not interested. It sometimes seems they are more interested in writing tickets than pro actively stopping unsafe contractors and workers. Its very similar to around here. The inspectors like to go to sites that are fairly safe and nit pick the workers saftey practices while they drive right by the outfits working with complete disregard to employee or the general publics welfare.
        Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by plumber:
          Utah,

          Thanks for following up on that unsafe contractor. Even though its thousands of miles away from here its still good to know that the proper officials have been made aware of those idiots. Hopefully the Building and Safety department will watch these bozo's and keep them from killing someone and undermining peoples homes.

          Its very disappointing that OSHA is not interested. It sometimes seems they are more interested in writing tickets than pro actively stopping unsafe contractors and workers. Its very similar to around here. The inspectors like to go to sites that are fairly safe and nit pick the workers saftey practices while they drive right by the outfits working with complete disregard to employee or the general publics welfare.
          Plumber,

          Here in California we have Cal-OSHA, which is a state department enforcining federal and state saftey regulations. Do you have that in Indiania?

          There are problems with this system, which would probably require another thread, which I will start when I have time.

          the dog
          the dog

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          • #35
            Theron, sorry for my harsh post earlier. And it is good to see you are trying to improve the work.

            But take no offense at this, however I notice you refer to another individual as a "trainee". In my mind, if you yourself are not a journeyman plumber, this is rather much like the blind training the blind. You can train a guy on how to snake or jet a line, and even how to put on a no-hub band, but as far as drainage systems go neither one of you are aware of proper code and neither one of you has the documentation in hours spent installing drain systems to be able to even come close to passing that part of the test. This is the problem I see with "roto-rooter" type companies, they are sending guys out in the field to perform plumbing jobs without even an apprentice's card, and no formal enrollment in a state approved program to get you the card. It's just, OK boys, grab that torch and pipe wrench and let's make some money. It's scary and I believe many times right on the fringe of illegality. I have seen roto-rooter guys for instance get sent out to a trailer to repair/replace frozen heat loop lines, and upon having a hard time soldering them they just slapped some unions on....INSIDE a wall. One time I saw a guy "repairing" a pinhole leak in a copper line with a piece of rubber hose and a hose clamp. That lasted all of a year or so until the entire line started rotting. I saw another one install a union on a gas line to a water heater BEFORE the valve. I could go on and on. And no supervision, no foreman to check on the work.

            The best way to get a plumbing education is to work for a plumbing company, start by roughing in new construction, work your way up to boilers/furnaces, trim, etc. You document all your hours along the way until you can take your test. Just my honest opinion, your not going to learn anything working for a sewer and drain franchise chain except faulty plumbing and snaking lines.

            [ 10-31-2005, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: AZPlumber ]

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            • #36
              AZPlumber
              New contruction is where i started out. I was in that for a year. I was laid off for the winter season so i had to find work quick. Roto-Rooter laid out a pretty sweet deal, so i took it. honestly quite a few of our guys are undertrained and there isn't enough supervision. I will be taking my test this april to get my license, but so many others are doing nothing to further their education and continue to do poor quality work. I see it every week when i do callbacks. Our callbacks are usually rediculous; wrong fittings, didn't use sandcloth, didn't use flux, installed the sanitary tee upside-down, used a tee instead of a wye, etc. All a lot of mistakes that properly trained and licensed professionals wouldn't make. I'm doing everything i can to further my education. I know my codebook fairly well, but i am not licensed. The whole c/o thing was a bad habit/shortcut i picked up from the guy who trained me. One that i've cancelled. I will get my licenses and continue to do my best training the guys I'm given. There are guys at our company that have been there for decades and haven't got their license - what laziness i say. On all jobs i do that require permits, I have one of our masters pull the permit and supervise and inspect my work. I hold myself to a higher standard than what is required at roto-rooter. Why - I'll be a plumber for the rest of my life, but i may not be working at roto-rooter for the rest of my life. But i have to admit you are right on all points about our company.

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              • #37
                In Illinois we have the Dept of Public Health and Safety. They have some laws regarding safe work practices but rely on the Federal agency to police their own rules.

                There is a need for a State Agency as well or at least another division within the Dept of Public Health but like all States right now there simply isn't enough money to fund it. There are simply too many people out there willing to risk other peoples lives and health to make a buck but without the funds to operate its hard to do very much.

                When the son or nephew of a well connected politician from either major party gets badly hurt in a workplace accident there will be all sorts of money "found" somewhere to enforce saftey regulations.
                Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Section 18 of the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 (the Act) encourages States to develop and operate their own job safety and health programs. OSHA approves and monitors State plans.

                  http://www.osha.gov/fso/osp/index.html

                  The following states have approved State Plans:
                  Alaska
                  Arizona
                  California
                  Connecticut
                  Hawaii
                  Indiana
                  Iowa
                  Kentucky
                  Maryland
                  Michigan
                  Minnesota
                  Nevada
                  New Jersey
                  New Mexico
                  New York
                  North Carolina
                  Oregon
                  Puerto Rico
                  South Carolina
                  Tennessee
                  Utah
                  Vermont
                  Virgin Islands
                  Virginia
                  Washington
                  Wyoming

                  NOTE: The Connecticut, New Jersey, New York and Virgin Islands plans cover public sector (State & local government) employment only.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Theron, sorry for any arrogance or anything untoward I may have been suggesting toward the sewer and drain biz. It's an honorable profession and one many journeyman plumbers are no good at due to it's being a whole skill set of it's own. It's hard work, and normally (should at least) pays very well. And I understand completely about being laid-off and needing to make a paycheck. I started out the same way exactly.

                    Alot of guys in S&W don't bother getting licenses because it's just not required (yet) for that field. I think this may be changing soon, but for now, it's all legal for anyone with a biz license and insurance to get into the industry. The guys who are GOOD at it stay in biz. I can't say I blame anyone in that industry for not bothering if they really don't plan on getting into the plumbing industry beyond that. There are many S&W companies that refuse actual plumbing work beyond clamping a no hub band on something or replacing a sink P-trap. For good reasons too, they don't want the liability and they are plenty busy jetting and snaking lines. It sounds though you are more ambitious than that and I highly respect both what you do and your willingness to learn.

                    Anyway, thanks for your replies and good luck.

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                    • #40
                      Thanks for the reply [img]smile.gif[/img] sorry it took me so long to reply - I have been working some long hours lately.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Drill Bits for cast iron?

                        Wow, It's been a long time since that stupid Roto-Rooter kid started this post. I was a total idiot apprentice back then and have learned a lot. We all start somewhere and I didn't start in the best of places. A lot has changed since then - I even worked for one of those Mike Diamond type companies for a short while since writing that - terrible. I now hold two journeyman licenses and one master and backflow, FP, etc. And work as a plumber for a big commercial maintenance and construction company. I am living the dream of regular hours and regular pay and working on the big stuff. Enough reminiscing - I have a legitimate reason to bring this post back from the dead. I have to remove a nohub 4" cap from a tyseal gasket in a closet carrier to extend the opening for a wall cleanout on a bathroom remodel. There is limited room about 12" to a wall. and the cap is flush with the edge of the tyseal so there's no way to get anything on it. My original plan was to cut an X in it with a grinder and beat it out in little pieces. Rick had posted earlier about carbide bits going through cast iron. Now I'm thinking - maybe drill a hole in the cap and use a screw puller of some kind (probably made of strut and rod or something) to pull the cap out of there. Was rick talking about your typical carbide tipped hole saw kit to drill through it? or something else? or would a diamond bit like one used for marble work? Or should I just stick with my original plan cause it may be faster.

                        Also, unrelated to the above - Can anyone recommend a good portaband blade for cast iron nohub? Of course i use chain snaps and grinders 99% of the time, but sometimes when the snaps won't fit and I can't get a hot work permit easily for the grinder - the portaband with a special blade might save a lot of time.
                        Last edited by Theron; 06-28-2012, 05:25 AM. Reason: spelling

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                        • #42
                          Re: Drill Bits for cast iron?

                          welcome back. yes that was a long time ago.

                          i drill cast iron sinks on a regular basis. a good quality carbide bit. i use "artu" will drill cast like butter.

                          how about a slide hammer puller like used in auto body work? even a screw with a toggle bolt will help grab the cap from the inside.

                          as far as a porta band blade. a good quality blade from milwaukee or lenox with 14tpi will easily cut old cast iron. did a ton of it on a hugh 29 story renovation. all new cast up to the stack. we cut all the tie ins with a portaband like butter. remember the sawdust will rust like crazy. so if it's a finished floor, make sure to sweep up.

                          newer no hub can be a challenge depending on the brand. but a grinder is never a problem with that.

                          glad you went to work for a real co.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

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                          • #43
                            Re: Drill Bits for cast iron?

                            Toggle bolt! Brilliant!!! Those artu bits look like hammerdrill bits. Can I just use and sds-plus bit on drill mode or is there something magical about the artu's that enable them to drill cast? I've used graingers 10/14 bandsaw blades (morse, i think) to easily cut hubbed cast iron, but no-hub just tears the teeth off the blades. I always use a slow speed so it's not that. Once I saw a band saw blade that looked like it had diamond teeth similar to a segmented diamond wheel on a grinder - has anyone used one of those?

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                            • #44
                              Re: Drill Bits for cast iron?

                              I would use a small grinder with a halfway worn down wheel to make a square cut in the cap. Stuff the carrier fitting so nothing falls in. Then use a sawzall blade to make two cuts from the inside out. If they used black swan adhesive lube, you will never pull the cap off. You can also drill holes through the ty-seal gasket...

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                              • #45
                                Re: Drill Bits for cast iron?

                                Thank you thank you NYCLMP. I've done that before with cleanout caps, I must have had a brain fart and didn't remember. It's been years ago. That's what we'll do.

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