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Why Facts Matter!

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  • Why Facts Matter!

    Last year I was hired on a project where a retired grandfather sold everything he owned to buy his dream home. Like with many families circumstances happen where three generations ended up living in the home together. One day the owner noticed the floors were starting to deflect. The owner called his insurance company who hired a plumber to see what was going on.

    The plumber came out and based on his opinion, the claim was denied. By the time I arrived on the project the house was not livable although the owners had nowhere else to go. Walking through the home was like walking through a rocking ship is a rough sea. There was as much as 18" of deflection in the home.

    On my initial inspection I noted the original plumber had not even attempted a proper inspection of the problem and instead and used inaccurate catch phrases which have become so popular with untrained tradesmen.

    In subsequent visits I had sections of the slab removed and had "Nevada Plumber" come in and remove the failed section of piping. I then took the removed section of piping to a failure analysis lab to analyse the pipe. Once the actual facts were known the insurance company reopened the claim.

    With the claim reopened the insurance company is now demoing the home and starting all over including a new foundation. Through science not catch phrases the owner will once again be able to enjoy his dream.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

  • #2
    Re: Why Facts Matter!

    So what was wrong with the pipe? Water pipe I presume? What type of material was it?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Why Facts Matter!

      What was the basis that the insurance company denied liability? And was that plumber hired by the insurance Co?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Why Facts Matter!

        The material was copper in the slab. The original plumber said it was multiple leaks in multiple hot water lines caused by electrolysis and corrosive soil which was excluded on the policy. What we proved was it was a single hot water line with a single pinhole leak caused by excessive flux used on a manifold 10-feet away. When "Nevada Plumber" and I showed up the family had already been without hot water for 10-months. When Mark and I left that day the family had hot water as soon as the heater was reset.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Why Facts Matter!

          Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
          What was the basis that the insurance company denied liability? And was that plumber hired by the insurance Co?
          Apparently this policy excluded slab leaks from corrosive soil. The area is know for the problem but we found all of the copper pipes in the slab were installed in plastic sleeves. The plumbers were hired by the insurance company and if I were a layperson I would have believed their report as well. However, as they never opened the slab I knew they had no idea what caused the leak.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why Facts Matter!

            You did the Lords work !
            I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Why Facts Matter!

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              Last year I was hired on a project where a retired grandfather sold everything he owned to buy his dream home. Like with many families circumstances happen where three generations ended up living in the home together. One day the owner noticed the floors were starting to deflect. The owner called his insurance company who hired a plumber to see what was going on.

              The plumber came out and based on his opinion, the claim was denied. By the time I arrived on the project the house was not livable although the owners had nowhere else to go. Walking through the home was like walking through a rocking ship is a rough sea. There was as much as 18" of deflection in the home.

              On my initial inspection I noted the original plumber had not even attempted a proper inspection of the problem and instead and used inaccurate catch phrases which have become so popular with untrained tradesmen.

              In subsequent visits I had sections of the slab removed and had "Nevada Plumber" come in and remove the failed section of piping. I then took the removed section of piping to a failure analysis lab to analyse the pipe. Once the actual facts were known the insurance company reopened the claim.

              With the claim reopened the insurance company is now demoing the home and starting all over including a new foundation. Through science not catch phrases the owner will once again be able to enjoy his dream.

              Mark
              Something that is left out in my opinion Mark that some may or may not know about that will typically be done in the circumstances.

              While the homeowners' insurance company will now begin to cover the repairs they will also seek to not pay one red cent of anything.

              The homeowners' insurance will turn around and seek subrogation against the original plumber and contractor & their insurance. Age of installation will play a part, but they'll still try to get it.

              Right or wrong, when homeowners' insurance covers things I don't see them as a savior to the situation as they will immediately turnaround and look to get every cent back.

              J.C.
              Last edited by BobsPlumbing; 09-17-2010, 10:47 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Why Facts Matter!

                Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                Something that is left out in my opinion Mark that some may or man not know about that will typically be done in the circumstances.

                While the homeowners' insurance company will now begin to cover the repairs they will also seek to not pay one red cent of anything.

                The homeowners' insurance will turn around and seek subrogation against the original plumber and contractor & their insurance. Age of installation will play a part, but they'll still try to get it.

                Right or wrong, when homeowners' insurance covers things I don't see them as a savior to the situation as they will immediately turnaround and look to get every cent back.

                J.C.
                The statues have all run so there is no one to subrogate against which made it much tougher. I am pretty sure there was no litigation either as the insurance company found the claim to be legit.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Why Facts Matter!

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  The statues have all run so there is no one to subrogate against which made it much tougher. I am pretty sure there was no litigation either as the insurance company found the claim to be legit.

                  Mark
                  How far did these statues run? Any video?

                  J.C.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Why Facts Matter!

                    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                    How far did these statues run? Any video?

                    J.C.
                    They were beyond 10-years but I am not sure by how much. I rarely do videos but I may be able to email you some stills.

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Why Facts Matter!

                      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                      They were beyond 10-years but I am not sure by how much. I rarely do videos but I may be able to email you some stills.

                      Mark
                      Poor, poor, Mr. Mark. Please get Mrs. J. to advise.

                      J.C.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Why Facts Matter!

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY63KTMrkTM




                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Why Facts Matter!

                          If I may ask, how did you come in on the project?
                          "Man will do many things to get himself loved, he will do all things to get himself envied." Mark Twain

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                          • #14
                            Re: Why Facts Matter!

                            Originally posted by SlimTim View Post
                            If I may ask, how did you come in on the project?
                            After a year of the HO trying to deal with his insurance company he went looking for an Attorney. I have worked for this Attorney in the past so he hired me. I hired "Nevada Plumber" and a Metallurgist to assist me and then wrote a report of my findings.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Why Facts Matter!

                              Glad I could assist you with the project Mark.

                              I'm glad that the insurance company is going to make things right for the homeowner as he is a very nice guy.

                              I have a customer who used to live three or four doors down the road from this home who has been fighting for over five years to get something done with his home. It is sinking into the ground just like this one is. The soil in that area of town is terrible. If any water gets under the home, down it goes.

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