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  • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

    Originally posted by OLD1 View Post
    F that
    Now I don't advertise "free estimates", but there is no difference in being called out for a free estimate to look at a job or being called out to repair a toilet and giving a price and not getting the job because of price.

    So for example, if I had a boiler for you to install, are you charging me a "trip charge" to come out and look at my job and give me a price?

    No difference between that and coming out to give a price on repairing a toilet either.

    Don't get me wrong, there are no written "iron clad" rules...just some of us treat it as a "free estimate".

    Comment


    • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

      Originally posted by dcman View Post
      right...it doesn't say charity plumbing inc on my van...if you pull a toilet to find whatever, you are diagnosing, that's a charge...
      Now that is a game changer....of course I would charge if tools came off my truck.

      Comment


      • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

        Originally posted by Flux View Post
        Now I don't advertise "free estimates", but there is no difference in being called out for a free estimate to look at a job or being called out to repair a toilet and giving a price and not getting the job because of price.

        So for example, if I had a boiler for you to install, are you charging me a "trip charge" to come out and look at my job and give me a price?

        No difference between that and coming out to give a price on repairing a toilet either.

        Don't get me wrong, there are no written "iron clad" rules...just some of us treat it as a "free estimate".
        Well the difference is that you would make alot more profit on the boiler install based off just the material mark up alone. Risk based off the possible reward. I cant see taking the risk to drive 15 miles only to have a guy say that 150.00 is too much to repair his toilet. The risk is not worth the reward.

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        • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

          Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
          So I revert them back to my 100.00 an hour minimum charge.
          My "flat price" for a ballcock and flapper is $130.00...did I rip anyone off?

          Lets remember there are a lot of guys who "flat price" that do not use a book to determine price.

          So many people here are quick to trash "flat pricing" Plumbers without getting all the facts about the ways each one of us comes up with a price. You can use a "flat price" by using T&M numbers as a guide.
          Last edited by Flux; 04-12-2011, 08:39 PM.

          Comment


          • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

            Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
            Well the difference is that you would make alot more profit on the boiler install based off just the material mark up alone. Risk based off the possible reward. I cant see taking the risk to drive 15 miles only to have a guy say that 150.00 is too much to repair his toilet. The risk is not worth the reward.
            That's why they telephone was invented..any one of us can "Ball park" a price over the phone for a leaky toilet.

            An argument can be made that...those that need to see the job to give an accurate price for "small repairs" use that as a guise to "take shots" at customers for trip charges.

            Roto Rooter is infamous for that...but yet they get trashed by every single Professional Plumber on this forum.

            Just saying though...

            Comment


            • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

              Originally posted by Flux View Post
              Now I don't advertise "free estimates", but there is no difference in being called out for a free estimate to look at a job or being called out to repair a toilet and giving a price and not getting the job because of price.

              So for example, if I had a boiler for you to install, are you charging me a "trip charge" to come out and look at my job and give me a price?

              No difference between that and coming out to give a price on repairing a toilet either.

              Don't get me wrong, there are no written "iron clad" rules...just some of us treat it as a "free estimate".

              Sure theres a difference ..If you get the boiler job you are making a hell of a lot more money and it is worth while to check it out for" free"...Not some piddly service call ..
              ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

              Comment


              • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

                Originally posted by OLD1 View Post
                Sure theres a difference ..If you get the boiler job you are making a hell of a lot more money and it is worth while to check it out for" free"...Not some piddly service call ..
                LIke I said in the previous post, "piddly" service calls can be "ball parked" over the phone...can't they?

                I have to be honest, I'm not wasting my time to get in the truck and driving even 10 miles to give a customer a price in person for a ballcock & flapper, when it can be done over the phone.

                I'd say 95% know my price up front before I even get in my truck. It's very rare for me to get called out to a job, and lose it because of price on small repair jobs. If I do, I treat it as a "free estimate" in hopes of getting called back again..and it normally happens.

                I totally understand trip charges...and I'm not putting it down at all...just making an argument so people can see the other side of the coin.

                Comment


                • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

                  Originally posted by Flux View Post
                  LIke I said in the previous post, "piddly" service calls can be "ball parked" over the phone...can't they?

                  I have to be honest, I'm not wasting my time to get in the truck and driving even 10 miles to give a customer a price in person for a ballcock & flapper, when it can be done over the phone.

                  I'd say 95% know my price up front before I even get in my truck. It's very rare for me to get called out to a job, and lose it because of price on small repair jobs. If I do, I treat it as a "free estimate" in hopes of getting called back again..and it normally happens.

                  I totally understand trip charges...and I'm not putting it down at all...just making an argument so people can see the other side of the coin.

                  I get what you're saying..trust me
                  ''Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

                  Comment


                  • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

                    Originally posted by Flux View Post
                    That's why they telephone was invented..any one of us can "Ball park" a price over the phone for a leaky toilet.

                    An argument can be made that...those that need to see the job to give an accurate price for "small repairs" use that as a guise to "take shots" at customers for trip charges.

                    Roto Rooter is infamous for that...but yet they get trashed by every single Professional Plumber on this forum.

                    Just saying though...
                    Look you made the comparison between looking at a replacing a boiler or looking at repairing a toilet and said there is no difference.. I simply told you the difference.

                    Ok your on the phone.....my toilet leaks on the floor when its flushed and its not coming from the tank.. Flat rate me.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

                      Originally posted by Flux View Post
                      My "flat price" for a ballcock and flapper is $130.00...did I rip anyone off?

                      Lets remember there are a lot of guys who "flat price" that do not use a book to determine price.

                      So many people here are quick to trash "flat pricing" Plumbers without getting all the facts about the ways each one of us comes up with a price. You can use a "flat price" by using T&M numbers as a guide.

                      Maybe yourself if you flat rated it on the phone.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

                        Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                        Look you made the comparison between looking at a replacing a boiler or looking at repairing a toilet and said there is no difference.. I simply told you the difference.

                        Ok your on the phone.....my toilet leaks on the floor when its flushed and its not coming from the tank.. Flat rate me.
                        There is no difference.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

                          Does it really matter? As long as you go home with more than you started the day with, isn't that what we are all in the business to do? It's not rocket science. Flat rate, T&M, lum sum, whatever you do. Do quality work at a fair price then you should have no problem making it in this business.
                          Will Rogers Plumbing
                          Moore, Oklahoma
                          (
                          405) 323-2852

                          "Your Solution for Any Sewer and Drain Cleaning Needs"

                          "We Unclog Drains That Others Can't"



                          www.willrogersplumbing.com
                          http://willrogersplumbing.com/?page_id=8

                          "Oklahoma's Favorite Plumbers!"

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                          • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

                            Originally posted by Flux View Post
                            There is no difference.
                            Again the difference is risk vs reward. Thats business 101.


                            ADD> And again.....my toilet leaks on the floor when its flushed and its not coming from the tank...flat-rate me on the phone.
                            Last edited by TheMaster; 04-13-2011, 08:12 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

                              When you go to a customer to give a price on a repair, are you
                              not providing a service? Are you not giving a qualified, professional
                              assessment? Are you not incurring a cost in time and resources to
                              travel to that customer? Of course you are! So, then, why would
                              you not want to get compensated? That so-called "free" diagnosis
                              is costing you. And it is the nature of business that costs must be
                              absorbed by the consumer. Otherwise you will lose money and ultimate
                              fail in business. As a plumbing contractor, my prices are contract prices.
                              Yes, they are based on and hourly rate plus material, but I don't itemize
                              material. If I did, then by state law I would have to charge sales tax and
                              I am not a plumbing retailer. We no longer give phone quotes because no
                              matter how much info you obtain from the customer, it is impossible to
                              make a 100% accurate assessment without seeing the situation.
                              If a customer just wants an estimate, I make it clear that they will be
                              charged a service call. If they choose to have me do the job, it gets
                              done right then and there. If they need to "think about it" and decide
                              to have me do it later, I will credit them for the first call. I don't mind
                              price shoppers, but they will pay for that privilege. Regardless of how
                              you price jobs, you must charge enough not only to cover your costs,
                              but enough to make the profit you deserve for providing efficient and
                              professional service.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Starting to have doubts about T&M

                                Originally posted by Big Jim View Post
                                When you go to a customer to give a price on a repair, are you
                                not providing a service? Are you not giving a qualified, professional
                                assessment? Are you not incurring a cost in time and resources to
                                travel to that customer? Of course you are! So, then, why would
                                you not want to get compensated? That so-called "free" diagnosis
                                is costing you. And it is the nature of business that costs must be
                                absorbed by the consumer. Otherwise you will lose money and ultimate
                                fail in business. As a plumbing contractor, my prices are contract prices.
                                Yes, they are based on and hourly rate plus material, but I don't itemize
                                material. If I did, then by state law I would have to charge sales tax and
                                I am not a plumbing retailer. We no longer give phone quotes because no
                                matter how much info you obtain from the customer, it is impossible to
                                make a 100% accurate assessment without seeing the situation.
                                If a customer just wants an estimate, I make it clear that they will be
                                charged a service call. If they choose to have me do the job, it gets
                                done right then and there. If they need to "think about it" and decide
                                to have me do it later, I will credit them for the first call. I don't mind
                                price shoppers, but they will pay for that privilege. Regardless of how
                                you price jobs, you must charge enough not only to cover your costs,
                                but enough to make the profit you deserve for providing efficient and
                                professional service.
                                We charged travel time so the overhead costs was built in.

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                                Comment

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