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  • Question for boiler guys

    I sure don't like getting involved in these situations, but now I sort of am and could use some advise.

    My neighbors daughter had a new boiler install a couple of months back. She and her husband purchased a Burnham Alpine boiler (ALP080).
    they hired a heating company to install it. Now they are having problems and the heating company is saying it is a boiler issue, or at least not an "installation issue".

    Neighbor asked me to take a look, tough to say no as he has helped me out a great deal over the years.

    They have 3 problems:
    1-seem to always have air in the lines

    2- relief valve kicks every night it is running

    3-system may have a leak in it

    1- they have spirovent on outlet line of boiler, 2 smaller auto vents and manual vents on baseboard heaters. They filled the system, bleed out the air, then shut off inlet valve (per manufacturer) and say the system is quiet, but gets air in it over time (couple of days).

    2-when I was there, they turned up thermostats and got the system fired and circulating and it never got up to 20psi. But when it runs at night, it kicks the relief. Has new reg. on fill line, 12psi inlet pressure, expansion tank at 12 psi.
    Reliefvalve with the unit was 30#, they change to 50# (per manufacture) and it still kicks. I saw in Burnhams installation you can install optional 80# or 100# relief valve, but I am not making that call on my own

    3 If fill valve is shut off, after a couple of days when turned on, the system takes small amount of water. they have basement piping to baseboard heaters under slab, but had that tested a couple of month prior to boiler change out.

    I am attaching pics my neighbor took...and they aren't too good of pics.

    any advice would be appreciated.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: Question for boiler guys

    one more pic
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Question for boiler guys

      The whole thing is piped wrong. It most certainly is an installation problem. Read the instruction manual, the alpine is suppose to be piped with primary and secondary loops. They will ruin a great boiler if left to operate this way. Plus void the warranty. Get it piped correctly.


      http://www.usboiler.burnham.com/pdf/...2.1%209-10.pdf
      WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE,
      ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Question for boiler guys

        That is one ugly install on a nice boiler. That was no heating company that did that work.

        He needs to cut it all out and start over following the piping diagram from Burnham.

        Not likely a leak but Spirovent or autovents sucking air into the system or water flashing across the heat exchanger
        Last edited by plumberscrack; 11-22-2010, 07:09 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Question for boiler guys

          the relief is going off because the auto fill is in the wrong spot ,it should be piped in at the expansion tank .this it where you call it the point of no pressure drop , so when the pump cones on or off it will not make a lower pressure where the auto fill is there for it will not over fill the boiler

          thats just one thing
          Charlie

          My seek the peek fundraiser page
          http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


          http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

          new work pictures 12/09
          http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Question for boiler guys

            Just get a reliable person who knows how to size the circulators and how the primary and secondary loops are piped. I gave you a copy of the instruction manual for the Alpine. Right now you have a boiler that is totally useless and it will be ruined if left this way.
            WE LIVE IN THE LAND OF THE FREE,
            ONLY BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Question for boiler guys

              if you look at the first picture you will see a gray air scoop below it i have a tee with the auto fill valve then out the bottom of the tee that pipe goes to the expansion tank

              2nd and 3rd pictures you can see the primary secondary piping and then the zone pumps coming off the top of that

              Last edited by HVAC HAWK; 11-22-2010, 05:19 PM.
              Charlie

              My seek the peek fundraiser page
              http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


              http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

              new work pictures 12/09
              http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Question for boiler guys

                you can see the pictures bigger if you click on my Fotki link at the bottom and look at Hershey farm house
                Charlie

                My seek the peek fundraiser page
                http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                new work pictures 12/09
                http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Question for boiler guys

                  Thanks guys, I will pass all this info along to them.

                  I don't know anything about the company they used, but sounds like they need to start from scratch....... maybe with another company.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Question for boiler guys

                    Originally posted by RDW920 View Post
                    Thanks guys, I will pass all this info along to them.

                    I don't know anything about the company they used, but sounds like they need to start from scratch....... maybe with another company.
                    and get there money back from the first company
                    Charlie

                    My seek the peek fundraiser page
                    http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                    http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                    new work pictures 12/09
                    http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Question for boiler guys

                      i was just looking at the pictures again and i like hoe they reduce down the supply at the Spirovent then increases back up again ,they must have had this one on the shelf and wanted to use it or if they went with a bigger one it would cost more

                      then look at the calculator flanges ,why not get the right size . it shows you know what your doing .

                      im sure there is more also but i cant see a lot from the pictures
                      Charlie

                      My seek the peek fundraiser page
                      http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                      http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                      new work pictures 12/09
                      http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Question for boiler guys

                        Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                        you can see the pictures bigger if you click on my Fotki link at the bottom and look at Hershey farm house
                        link to photos doesn't work for me. i get 'access denied' message.
                        "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                        John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Question for boiler guys

                          try it now
                          Charlie

                          My seek the peek fundraiser page
                          http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                          http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                          new work pictures 12/09
                          http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Question for boiler guys

                            Ya thats one hack job there.. piping strung all over the place restrictions in the piping incorrect placement of expansion tank circulator etc. The releif is most likely popping constantly because the system is not circulating correctly. They dont get the point of no pressure change concept and also the circulator will cavitate in no time the way its piped.
                            Last edited by plumbworker; 11-25-2010, 11:08 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Question for boiler guys

                              any up dates on whats going to happen with this boiler
                              Charlie

                              My seek the peek fundraiser page
                              http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                              http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                              new work pictures 12/09
                              http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                              Comment

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