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PEX Vs RAT

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  • Re: PEX Vs RAT

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    There are a lot of times where the protection is based in part on the home itself not reaching freezing. However, with all of these repos right now the Banks are running around trying to winterize the homes to prevent damages. You also have to remember anytime you use stuff like heat-trace tape it can fail.

    Mark
    Agreed on the heat tape. That is why I prefer not to see any plumbing installed in a way where it can freeze, and yes it does depend on the home itself. Just before the cold weather hit out here I sent fliers to all the Realtors in the area explaining to them its best to winterize their vacant homes. It points out if there is a power fails, or the furnace fails for some reason it can be catastrophic if a pipe freezes and splits.

    I just winterized a few homes this week. Last year I did repair a home that had multiple burst pipes in a vacant home. One of the Realtors prospective customers switched the thermostat from heat to cool.
    Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
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    A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
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    Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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    • Re: PEX Vs RAT

      Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
      Finally a exterminator shows up with the correct answer. Thank you.

      I decided to check up on what my customer told me vs what the member redwood is saying........looks like water activates a homemade poison.http://www.ahc.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=606
      A simple and safe home made bait is a 50:50 mixture of dry cement powder and cornflour placed in a shallow dish or bait station in the path used by the rodents. It is particularly good for use indoors, as the rat or mouse will feed then seek water outside. Water causes the cement powder to react, quickly killing the rodent outdoors where it can be disposed of easily.
      Is that what you use in your home?

      I really have no expertise in this matter so I bow to you...

      My knowledge of the thirst associated from blood loss comes from EMS training not any practical training in rodent control in my home...

      Baits are available in a number of formats including meal, grains, pellets and blocks. Baits should be used in low traffic, hard-to-reach areas such as basements, garages and attics. Baits are an ideal way to avoid contact with rodents, because once they've eaten the bait, they leave the area to die, generally going outside to seek water. Baits are safe and highly effective if used according to directions.

      Most common rat and mouse poisons fall into the anticoagulant category. These products, long-acting warfarins, reduce the clotting of blood, and result in death from internal bleeding or anemia, usually within 4-10 days. http://www.d-conproducts.com/faq.html
      Last edited by Redwood; 12-23-2010, 10:59 AM.
      411 Plumb Appliance Stimulus Package

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      • Re: PEX Vs RAT

        Whew! That was a long read.

        I'm happy it's on THIS forum.

        Brings back memories.

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        • Re: PEX Vs RAT

          I can't believe this thread is almost up to 200 posts and I'm the only one who considers it "post of the week" worthy. If one of the avowed purposes of this forum is to stimulate discussion on plumbing issues, how can this not be a sterling example of that goal?
          Last edited by Plumbus; 12-23-2010, 12:30 PM.

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          • Re: PEX Vs RAT

            Excuse me if I have problems with you folks plumbing south of the Mason Dixon. You get a day or so of 20 degrees and think the end of the world is coming. We get a couple of days of 20 degrees and take the winter coats off. Pex is freeze resistant but not freeze proof and I can show you lots of pictures of frozen and split pex. Besides that, we are now running into houses that were totally piped in Pex and for many reasons have totally frozen up. Instead of being able to put the thawing machine on, fix a couple splits and be done, now we have to put salamander heaters in the house for several hours and even days to thaw the piping out and then fix the leaks. care to guess which one costs the home owner less? Naturally, since a lot of folks think or have heard that PEX won't freeze, they tend to run it in outside walls, behind cabinets, through unheated crawlspaces, in attics and then wonder why it froze up on them. Want some real fun? Try thawing out a frozen radiant slab sometime.

            Oh yea, rat poison. Plaster of Paris is commonly used in rat poison also. It reacts with the moisture in the rats stomach and hardens into an undigestible ball.
            sigpic

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            • Re: PEX Vs RAT

              Who said pex piping won't freeze? Of course it will freeze in the right conditions. I've never heard of that. Water piping is water piping and you don't run it in outside walls around here just like you don't with copper. If the heat gets turned off when it's 30 below then ALL pipes will freeze. Anyone telling customers pex won't freeze is a dumb azzz.

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              • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                Originally posted by ironranger View Post
                Who said pex piping won't freeze? Of course it will freeze in the right conditions. I've never heard of that. Water piping is water piping and you don't run it in outside walls around here just like you don't with copper. If the heat gets turned off when it's 30 below then ALL pipes will freeze. Anyone telling customers pex won't freeze is a dumb azzz.
                I believe the terms used were "freeze-resistant" not proof.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  Excuse me if I have problems with you folks plumbing south of the Mason Dixon. You get a day or so of 20 degrees and think the end of the world is coming. We get a couple of days of 20 degrees and take the winter coats off. Pex is freeze resistant but not freeze proof and I can show you lots of pictures of frozen and split pex. Besides that, we are now running into houses that were totally piped in Pex and for many reasons have totally frozen up. Instead of being able to put the thawing machine on, fix a couple splits and be done, now we have to put salamander heaters in the house for several hours and even days to thaw the piping out and then fix the leaks. care to guess which one costs the home owner less? Naturally, since a lot of folks think or have heard that PEX won't freeze, they tend to run it in outside walls, behind cabinets, through unheated crawlspaces, in attics and then wonder why it froze up on them. Want some real fun? Try thawing out a frozen radiant slab sometime.

                  Oh yea, rat poison. Plaster of Paris is commonly used in rat poison also. It reacts with the moisture in the rats stomach and hardens into an undigestible ball.
                  Ok post up some pics of pex that has frozen and burst. I'd like to see it.....because I have yet to see any down here. Last year was the coldest year on record I believe here......I only had calls for copper and cpvc that burst. There are miles and miles of pex it in attics here.

                  I've pumped up some pex to 100psi with a shut off valve on it...turned the valve off and threw it in the freezer for a month.....thawed it out and it still was holding pressure. You could never do that with copper. Installing pex fittings close together will not allow the pex to expand and it WILL split when frozen.
                  Last edited by TheMaster; 12-23-2010, 03:36 PM.

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                  • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                    I believe the terms used were "freeze-resistant" not proof.

                    Mark
                    Freeze burst resistant is what I say.

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                    • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                      My question still stands, how do you thaw pex?

                      As NHMaster pointed out with metal pipes we hook up a pipe thawer and get the water flowing, and repair any splits as needed. With pex I do not see a quick or safe way of thawing the pipe.
                      Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                      Ron's Facebook
                      A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
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                      • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                        Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                        My question still stands, how do you thaw pex?

                        As NHMaster pointed out with metal pipes we hook up a pipe thawer and get the water flowing, and repair any splits as needed. With pex I do not see a quick or safe way of thawing the pipe.
                        You raise it temp to above 32 degrees. It thaws right out. You do that with a heat source.

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                        • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                          Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                          You raise it temp to above 32 degrees. It thaws right out. You do that with a heat source.
                          Guess you miss my point. The house has normal heat, but a pex line freezes in the wall or attic or better yet, as I have seen a few times frozen under the cement basement floor. Now how do you thaw it safely? Cannot hook up a pipe thawing machine and thaw it out that way can you?
                          Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                          Ron's Facebook
                          A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                          Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                          Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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                          • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                            Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                            Guess you miss my point. The house has normal heat, but a pex line freezes in the wall or attic or better yet, as I have seen a few times frozen under the cement basement floor. Now how do you thaw it safely? Cannot hook up a pipe thawing machine and thaw it out that way can you?
                            You dont make a point by asking a question. I answered your question.

                            Common sense tells you its plastic and a pipe thaw machine will not work.

                            You use heat to thaw it out. Pick your method thats appropriate.

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                            • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                              Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                              You dont make a point by asking a question. I answered your question.

                              Common sense tells you its plastic and a pipe thaw machine will not work.

                              You use heat to thaw it out. Pick your method thats appropriate.
                              So there is no easy or safe way to thaw pex is what you are saying. So NHMaster's post about having to bring in salamander heaters in the house for several hours and even days to thaw the piping out.

                              I do not see the advantage to pex then when it comes to freezing. I can hook up a thawer to metal pipe and have the water flowing in most cases 15 minutes, longer runs take about an hour.
                              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                              Ron's Facebook
                              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                              Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                              Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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                              • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                                I wonder when you sell your customers on pex that you explain to them that it may be freeze burst resistant, but when it freezes, that it can take hours or days to thaw out.
                                Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                                Ron's Facebook
                                A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                                Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                                Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

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