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  • #31
    Re: PEX Vs RAT

    Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
    Plumbers are making less money???? Thats simply not true. Not the good ones who have business sense.

    You think a customer cares if it takes skill to install it? Most do not. Most want it cheap and theres nothing wrong with that.

    I dont consider soldering a highly skilled task....its quite simple really.
    Plumbers wages are way down.
    the trade has been DUMBED DOWN.
    Most solder jobs are done by pigs.A proud joint looks good and takes skill not possesed by most slobs who call themselves pros

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    • #32
      Re: PEX Vs RAT

      Originally posted by DUNBAR PLUMBING View Post
      Ahh but you see,


      I don't have to explain and justify why I run copper.

      It takes skill,


      that's why sharkbites and plastic pipe came along... so everyone can do it.


      You can repipe a house in 4 hours with pex. Crimp n' go.

      This thread shows the problems of a piping material that instantly from the word go, you have to make your home vermin resistant, or you'll have plumbing issues.


      Plumbers are making less money as a result because of the fast and quick.

      I'm proud enough as a plumber to use my company name wherever I post, proclaiming that I won't use a product that has little or no skill to use to provide potable water.

      I've got some self respect left that I'm keeping in this profession before I retire, and it won't include fast and easy, aka lazy mans pipe.
      I thought the same way as you do and continued to use copper as all my plumbing mates were changing to pex and buiders were demanding that I use it as well so around ten years ago I bit the bullet and started with Rehue and with other pex piping systems and eventually you will be forced into useing it as money rules

      Tony

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      • #33
        Re: PEX Vs RAT

        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
        Plumbers wages are way down.
        the trade has been DUMBED DOWN.
        Most solder jobs are done by pigs.A proud joint looks good and takes skill not possesed by most slobs who call themselves pros
        You guys are too caught up in "being a plumber" to make any money it seems. Every good plumber I know is making PLENTY OF MONEY. I know I had my best year ever this year. A solder joint doesn't hafta look good to be a good joint......get over yourself basically....your jsut a plumber like the next plumber....your just the one beating yourself up over an unwiped joint that no one but you really gives a crap about.

        I say that with the best intentions of hopefully making you realize that one day when your old and grey you will need money to take care of yourself.....not memories of clean solder joints and copper.
        Last edited by TheMaster; 12-21-2010, 08:01 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: PEX Vs RAT

          Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
          You guys are too caught up in "being a plumber" to make any money it seems. Every good plumber I know is making PLENTY OF MONEY. I know I had my best year ever this year. A solder joint doesn't hafta look good to be a good joint......get over yourself basically....your jsut a plumber like the next plumber....your just the one beating yourself up over an unwiped joint that no one but you really gives a crap about.
          I do not like how you say this.This nation is full of one night sellout whores grabbing as much as fast they can.

          The doors are closing,better rush out and grab another arms full

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: PEX Vs RAT

            Originally posted by AFM View Post
            I thought the same way as you do and continued to use copper as all my plumbing mates were changing to pex and buiders were demanding that I use it as well so around ten years ago I bit the bullet and started with Rehue and with other pex piping systems and eventually you will be forced into useing it as money rules

            Tony
            This is a business...this is not a game. Right on Its about money. if a guy wants to pay for copper I will throw him a price. No problem. if he wants cheap I will give him cheap. Simple as that case closed.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: PEX Vs RAT

              Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
              You guys are too caught up in "being a plumber" to make any money it seems. Every good plumber I know is making PLENTY OF MONEY. I know I had my best year ever this year. A solder joint doesn't hafta look good to be a good joint......get over yourself basically....your jsut a plumber like the next plumber....your just the one beating yourself up over an unwiped joint that no one but you really gives a crap about.
              I disagree. The problem with a person that doesn't care about cleaning up a solder joint (5 seconds longer ) and doesn't "give a crap about" let's that mentality pervade most things they do in my experience.

              Won't straighten the toilet in a low income house or commercial job.
              Won't clean a PVC p-trap after cleaning a drain and it's black all over because it's under the cabinet-Who cares?
              Etc.

              I have no time for anyone that doesn't make an effort to clean up their solder balls and runs. Because I can't count the times it's been me that came behind them and had to cut the copper and the mfing solder balls were right in the way.

              I care.

              P.S. I've installed my miles of PEX and will continue to do so as I see warranted.

              Thanks.


              J.C.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: PEX Vs RAT

                Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                I do not like how you say this.This nation is full of one night sellout whores grabbing as much as fast they can.

                The doors are closing,better rush out and grab another arms full
                I refuse to turn down work because a customer wants pex. Simple as that. I'm a businessman 1st. The glory days are over...I'm pushin 40 and I'm in it for the money. I make no bones about that with anyone including my customers. A man has to make a living and take care of himself.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: PEX Vs RAT

                  I tend to believe some of us here are trying to better our industry one job at a time. The money to me has always been secondary to my pride in my work.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: PEX Vs RAT

                    Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                    I disagree. The problem with a person that doesn't care about cleaning up a solder joint (5 seconds longer ) and doesn't "give a crap about" let's that mentality pervade most things they do in my experience.

                    Won't straighten the toilet in a low income house or commercial job.
                    Won't clean a PVC p-trap after cleaning a drain and it's black all over because it's under the cabinet-Who cares?
                    Etc.

                    I have no time for anyone that doesn't make an effort to clean up their solder balls and runs. Because I can't count the times it's been me that came behind them and had to cut the copper and the mfing solder balls were right in the way.

                    I care.

                    P.S. I've installed my miles of PEX and will continue to do so as I see warranted.

                    Thanks.


                    J.C.
                    Ultimately the joint quality is the same or better. The rest is in your head. Agreed?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: PEX Vs RAT

                      I have nothing against a properly installed PEX system.

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: PEX Vs RAT

                        Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                        Ultimately the joint quality is the same or better. The rest is in your head. Agreed?
                        Joint quality should be the same if that is all a person cares about.

                        However, the repairability of the system is decreased and therefore, in my opinion, inferior as a total system.

                        And no, the rest is not in my head.


                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: PEX Vs RAT

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          I tend to believe some of us here are trying to better our industry one job at a time. The money to me has always been secondary to my pride in my work.

                          Mark
                          If the money was cut off you would find another line of work or you love plumbing tha much to starve and still do it? Would you take a 20,000 a year pay cut and proclaim "I only use copper" I'm not willing to do that. You cant compete trying to sell copper repipes vs pex repipes when copper is what the people already have and is the problem. You woulldn't be working to be proud of it unless you did somthing else....it wouldn't be repipes in my location.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: PEX Vs RAT

                            Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                            Joint quality should be the same if that is all a person cares about.

                            However, the repairability of the system is decreased and therefore, in my opinion, inferior as a total system.

                            And no, the rest is not in my head.


                            J.C.
                            Ok so solder that drips down the pipe reduces the repairability of the system......ok now I will act like a customer. "Why would my system need repairing?"

                            I can tell you that laying on my back at 2:30 in the morning with it 20 degrees outside repairing copper water pipes under houses in the garden disctrict of new orleans after working round the clock in 20 somthing hour shifts.....No I could give a F less about a wiped solder joint and neither did the people who lived in the houses....they wanted water. freeze leaks for weeks.
                            Last edited by TheMaster; 12-21-2010, 08:23 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: PEX Vs RAT

                              Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                              Plumbers are making less money???? Thats simply not true. Not the good ones who have business sense.

                              You think a customer cares if it takes skill to install it? Most do not. Most want it cheap and theres nothing wrong with that.

                              I dont consider soldering a highly skilled task....its quite simple really. Self respect? My self respect has nothing to do with my profession or the pipe I use.

                              Did you buy your logic at big lots? Wages have been dropping on new construction plumbers every single time a cheaper faster quicker product has entered the market. It hasn't been more because there's less skill that associates with the simplicity of the piping systems involving water distribution systems.

                              Customer wants a product that stands the test of time, and this thread proves that your water line has holes in it. Does it not? That pipe doesn't even look 3 years old. I bet that wouldn't of happened with metallic piping.


                              The art, which I believe in and you don't, is the joining or fabricating of piping systems that take multiple steps, which copper is known for and has stumped the majority in how to properly do over the last 30-60 years.

                              I don't care if you know how to solder or crimp a hose clamp and call it a water line.

                              I care about my profession, not about the cheap lazy mans pipe you run and profit from. It lays on your conscious, not mine.

                              I've walked through the shadows of polybutylene, Bluemax, Kitec, Quest and a few others with short lifes to believe you and anyone else hopping the fast and easy bandwagon is your problem, not mine.

                              I'll be the one who profits from the mistakes that keep being made, trusting these systems not holding up to the test of time. First picture of the thread. A brand new pipe that didn't last.

                              It's not the fault of copper that your local water purveyors are juicing the water to self destroy the water lines you now replace.

                              I don't have to be on any proving grounds when I put good products in my hands.


                              I've got you on the defensive now, and you're holding a roll of pipe that's known for unskilled workmanship.

                              Dunbar Plumbing does not perform work practices such as these and will refuse any work relating to the idea.

                              We're just that damn good and my customers trust my background knowledge, knowing the other plastic water line systems have been constantly failing over the years.

                              But threads like these are great, and subpoenas and the information highway allows the brisk hands of a lawyer to seek and find and legally summon anyone to court that has used any products that have later turned out to be defective.

                              When that time comes for PEX, the wide world of the internet will definitely know one plumber in Kentucky didn't buy the bullshit of the "fast and easy, all I wanna make is money" attitude.

                              That's just how I roll...
                              Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: PEX Vs RAT

                                Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                                If the money was cut off you would find another line of work or you love plumbing tha much to starve and still do it? Would you take a 20,000 a year pay cut and proclaim "I only use copper" I'm not willing to do that. You cant compete trying to sell copper repipes vs pex repipes when copper is what the people already have and is the problem. You woulldn't be working to be proud of it unless you did somthing else....it wouldn't be repipes in my location.

                                I don't know, I'm down over $400,000 from what I billed in 2008 and I'm still here. Remember PEX was not legal in California until just recently so it will take a while for people to get use to it.

                                When flex supplies first came out I would not let my guys use them. When we did repipes we did not use compression stops because I wanted brass drop ears, brass nipples and stops. I'm sure I lost some jobs because of it but at the same time I got some jobs because I told them I was using a better material. I've never let the customer dictate the quality of my work.

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                                Comment

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