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  • #91
    Re: PEX Vs RAT

    Originally posted by DUNBAR PLUMBING View Post
    That's why you don't see those plumbers actively in the trade anymore. They are all out of business.


    And trying to get them to put anything in print on the internet is impossible.

    Chlorine is a destructive chemical, aggressive ph's as well but I'll go with stamped history of a product, knowing the risks involved.
    I know of plenty of plumbers that have installed every type of pipe ever made and are still in business. Go figure. I'm not the slightest bit worried about getting sued over installing pex. All the lawyers I know wouldn't sue me over a defective product that did property damage when they can get the manufacturer and even if they did all they would get is what my insurance wanted to pay. I'm incorporated and its air tight. The bsuiness doesn't really own anything my business rents everything and checks are written for that rent each month. Its good to have lawyer friends. The business owns some material and some tools....office equipment and a modest bank account. Take it..who cares. I'll start another business. lol

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    • #92
      Re: PEX Vs RAT

      Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
      I know of plenty of plumbers that have installed every type of pipe ever made and are still in business. Go figure. I'm not the slightest bit worried about getting sued over installing pex. All the lawyers I know wouldn't sue me over a defective product that did property damage when they can get the manufacturer and even if they did all they would get is what my insurance wanted to pay. I'm incorporated and its air tight. The bsuiness doesn't really own anything my business rents everything and checks are written for that rent each month. Its good to have lawyer friends. The business owns some material and some tools....office equipment and a modest bank account. Take it..who cares. I'll start another business. lol


      I'm glad your confident.

      But I would never print what you just did on the internet, in a public forum.
      Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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      • #93
        Re: PEX Vs RAT

        Either You have it in Your Heart and soul to care , or You don't !

        " There's Men at 15 , and Boys at 40 "
        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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        • #94
          Re: PEX Vs RAT

          Originally posted by DUNBAR PLUMBING View Post
          I'm glad your confident.

          But I would never print what you just did on the internet, in a public forum.
          Why? I follow the rules. Its nothing more than what a good lawyer would tell you to do. Its how the system is set up. The only thing that can pierce the corporate shield is gross negligence or lack of proper record keeping and improper activities by the corporation. I have done neither. Whens the last time you actually paid and sat down wit a good lawyer?

          Oh and I've seen some of the crap you have posted in public and i feel the same. I could see some of that being rattled off in court. lol

          For instance some one could read that you pee in bottles and keep it in your truck.....they could call you and then report that they saw your nub when you was peeing in a bottle at your truck...there ya go.....charges filed and your being sued for showing your wang to the customrs teenage daughter. lol
          Last edited by TheMaster; 12-21-2010, 10:54 PM.

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          • #95
            Re: PEX Vs RAT

            As odd as it sounds my plumbing business was always as a Sole Proprietor because I did not want to hide behind a Corporate Veil. The first time I was served with a lawsuit was for a job the guy I sold my business to did. He did the job 5-years after I sold the business but I was still named. I called the firm to explain they served the wrong person but they would not let me out. I finally had to pay an Attorney (one of my ex-cub scouts) to get me out of it.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: PEX Vs RAT

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              As odd as it sounds my plumbing business was always as a Sole Proprietor because I did not want to hide behind a Corporate Veil. The first time I was served with a lawsuit was for a job the guy I sold my business to did. He did the job 5-years after I sold the business but I was still named. I called the firm to explain they served the wrong person but they would not let me out. I finally had to pay an Attorney (one of my ex-cub scouts) to get me out of it.

              Mark
              My orporate veil is made of pex and its freeze burst resistant. Last year during the 20 year freeze we had I repaired ZERO pex piping. I did about 50 service calls for popped copper and turned down many more.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: PEX Vs RAT

                Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                My orporate veil is made of pex and its freeze burst resistant. Last year during the 20 year freeze we had I repaired ZERO pex piping. I did about 50 service calls for popped copper and turned down many more.
                Mine's made of Chicken Wings and Waffles.


                J.C.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: PEX Vs RAT

                  Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                  Why? I follow the rules. Its nothing more than what a good lawyer would tell you to do. Its how the system is set up. The only thing that can pierce the corporate shield is gross negligence or lack of proper record keeping and improper activities by the corporation. I have done neither. Whens the last time you actually paid and sat down wit a good lawyer?

                  Oh and I've seen some of the crap you have posted in public and i feel the same. I could see some of that being rattled off in court. lol

                  For instance some one could read that you pee in bottles and keep it in your truck.....they could call you and then report that they saw your nub when you was peeing in a bottle at your truck...there ya go.....charges filed and your being sued for showing your wang to the customrs teenage daughter. lol

                  The plumbers in Las Vegas, Nevada followed the rules. Then the lawsuits came. Then the angry property owners came and sought class action status.

                  Then the lawyers came.

                  Which led to accountability, which forced the hand of financial responsibility that shut more than a few plumbing companies down.

                  I don't have to worry about that asessed risk because I don't put that risk in my hands to begin with. Until the lazy mans pipe has a tried and true record, holds up without lawsuits trailing behind it, and property owners are not getting bilked for tens of thousands of dollars, I'll respect lazy mans pipe.


                  But not before then, not now, and it'll stay that way. I want to know what 15-20 years of chlorine exposure along with temperature variances does to this product in the long run. Everything promised across the plumbing counter doesn't always jive with the reality of quality materials, no matter what the ASTM has to say about it.

                  I've gained tons of respect both online in the forum communities across the internet, along with my local community for throwing hesitance to any new products, especially ones with a sordid past that robs those same peers of the age old addage of "quality materials and workmanship."

                  But you're for the dollar, I'm for the destination in this profession to know I did more than minimum, more than just "code" as you imply that you're good for.

                  Lazy mans pipe isn't for me. I've got no reason to install it no matter who wants bottom dollar for the task. I wasn't installing PB or BlueMAX piping when everyone and their brother followed that pipe dream. I didn't trust plastic and I see the issues of the piping in the aging process.

                  Maybe this is why I have pee jugs in my truck. I'm actually pouring my knowledge into the jug as much as I put into the internet to read and follow... and that is a fact you already know. That's why you logged out and reading this response. Feel free to post a link to this thread on the forum that was created 9-21-10 under a domain proxy.
                  Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: PEX Vs RAT

                    Originally posted by DUNBAR PLUMBING View Post
                    The plumbers in Las Vegas, Nevada followed the rules. Then the lawsuits came. Then the angry property owners came and sought class action status.

                    Then the lawyers came.

                    Which led to accountability, which forced the hand of financial responsibility that shut more than a few plumbing companies down.

                    I don't have to worry about that asessed risk because I don't put that risk in my hands to begin with. Until the lazy mans pipe has a tried and true record, holds up without lawsuits trailing behind it, and property owners are not getting bilked for tens of thousands of dollars, I'll respect lazy mans pipe.


                    But not before then, not now, and it'll stay that way. I want to know what 15-20 years of chlorine exposure along with temperature variances does to this product in the long run. Everything promised across the plumbing counter doesn't always jive with the reality of quality materials, no matter what the ASTM has to say about it.

                    I've gained tons of respect both online in the forum communities across the internet, along with my local community for throwing hesitance to any new products, especially ones with a sordid past that robs those same peers of the age old addage of "quality materials and workmanship."

                    But you're for the dollar, I'm for the destination in this profession to know I did more than minimum, more than just "code" as you imply that you're good for.

                    Lazy mans pipe isn't for me. I've got no reason to install it no matter who wants bottom dollar for the task. I wasn't installing PB or BlueMAX piping when everyone and their brother followed that pipe dream. I didn't trust plastic and I see the issues of the piping in the aging process.

                    Maybe this is why I have pee jugs in my truck. I'm actually pouring my knowledge into the jug as much as I put into the internet to read and follow... and that is a fact you already know. That's why you logged out and reading this response. Feel free to post a link to this thread on the forum that was created 9-21-10 under a domain proxy.
                    Ok I didn't sign out..I timed out. I was watching "fat Tony" on Youtube sweat copper without reaming it and wipe transmission fluid on it and stuff bread in it.

                    I've been using pex since it started being sold here in the mid 90's. I haven't been sued yet and neither have any of the plumbers here because of defective pipe. I have replaced copper systems after 5 years of being put into service...its not the end all be all pipe material.

                    Try to pay your mortgage with the respect you get from a forum and if you were respected so highly in your community you wouldn't hafta advertise like you do...simple as that. And you wouldn't have time to do anything but plumbing...buts thats not the case.
                    Last edited by TheMaster; 12-22-2010, 12:14 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                      Dunbar,

                      If you were in an area which is known for cold water pitting of copper pipe what would you install? It's easy to call PEX "lazy man's pipe" but what if tried and true copper was susceptible to pinhole leaks due to environmental conditions?

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                        Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                        Ok I didn't sign out..I timed out. I was watching "fat Tony" on Youtube sweat copper without reaming it and wipe transmission fluid on it and stuff bread in it.

                        I've been using pex since it started being sold here in the mid 90's. I haven't been sued yet and neither have any of the plumbers here because of defective pipe. I have replaced copper systems after 5 years of being put into service...its not the end all be all pipe material.

                        Try to pay your mortgage with the respect you get from a forum and if you were respected so highly in your community you wouldn't hafta advertise like you do...simple as that. And you wouldn't have time to do anything but plumbing...buts thats not the case.

                        And sure enough, you're posting just mere minutes from my statements.
                        Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

                        Comment


                        • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                          Originally posted by DUNBAR PLUMBING View Post
                          And sure enough, you're posting just mere minutes from my statements.
                          And your point?????? LOL Is it a conspiracy?

                          Comment


                          • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                            Dunbar,

                            If you were in an area which is known for cold water pitting of copper pipe what would you install? It's easy to call PEX "lazy man's pipe" but what if tried and true copper was susceptible to pinhole leaks due to environmental conditions?

                            Mark
                            What would I install?

                            A piping that's suitable for the water conditions.


                            But first off, you're asking a question that baits another statement, and I'll turn it around for you to answer.

                            This lazy mans pipe has a short life right now, and nothing can base longevity standards on it. You know from your expertise that nothing is considered a reliable product that doesn't withstand normal conditions for X amount of time.

                            To say the world changed when PEX came into the plumbing field and we should all hail it as the best product for all situations,

                            I revert back to known logic, the same logic you have in water conditions, and are you addressing the problem or the symptoms.

                            Why was copper first installed/regulated in those areas to begin with, now all of a sudden the water chemistry has been changed and cannot withstand it's conditions presented to it.

                            Remember that galvanized, which is the same mentality as ductile steel mains are still used to this day for water distribution.

                            Galvanized piping that still works to this day, in use, stretching 40-55 years old.

                            To see a plastic piping history of lawsuits, unreal conditions as hiding it in black plastic bags before use, keep out of the sun in a basement, don't touch it with dirty hands...


                            Do you really think that asking that question to me was following the ritual of implied thinking that we are dealing with (plastic piping) that serves the best interest of the public, knowing how easily this product has conditions not only before and during installation,

                            but the dramatic effects that time, temperature, thermal expansion and contraction creates over a period of time.

                            I already know the beginnings of the piping that fails, dip tubes, underground water services that 90% of the service calls asking me to fix are based on,

                            all the plastic parts that are constantly breaking that lead me to a supply house,

                            and I can go forever with the litany of reasons why "some" of us just don't jump on the sinking ship because it's there to ride.

                            My thoughts, since I'm a service plumber is to knock out the problem, which is correct the water chemistry... because bad water just doesn't affect the water lines, it affects the fixtures, their connections, valves, and other items that can be damaged or destroyed as a result.

                            Idaho has a necessity to drop plastic water services in the ground, acidic earth.

                            They won't hold still for galvanized... but do you know how many galvanized water services that are 30-50 years old are still working without leaking, delivering pressure?

                            They tried a section of plastic water mains in some rural areas in a county near me...

                            ripped them all back out because the water destroyed it and even though it was properly installed in the ground, they didn't understand the growth and contraction rates would play such a heavy role and create stress points in the piping system.


                            There's a reason why my water service was installed in 1959 in type L copper and hasn't failed yet,

                            and there's a reason why I get so tired of every plastic water service, even the newer ones are constantly breaking...

                            one is a far superior product, and remains.

                            My views won't stop one sale of PEX, but it'll bring good wisdom to those who understand logical thinking when it comes to product choices and what the down the road value has in certain products.
                            Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                            • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                              glad to see i'm a bystander in this one

                              but i see both points. i agree with most points from both sides and i also disagree with some points from both sides

                              i do believe that pex will take over for copper in the residential market. but i also see copper being used for the commercial market.

                              now if i was still doing repipes, i would favor pex for a number of reasons. and i would use it for my own home too. i also know a properly installed plastic dwv system the way to go. i do very little drain cleaning on plastic dwv and almost daily cleaning on cast/ no-hub dwv. plus plastic is more forgiving even when not properly installed.

                              i don't see it as taking a step backwards, i see it as progress. taking a step backwards is still threading rod for hangers because the union says it puts plumbers to work. the days of the unions calling the shots have shot themselves in the foot. i along with many others i've worked with over the years have long left the union and the politics of being in the union..

                              but that being said, whatever product one chooses to install, install it with pride just as you would for yourself, family, friends and customers. the old term " can't see it from my house" is b.s. in fact i sign my name to just about everything i touch and proud of it.

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

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                              • Re: PEX Vs RAT

                                Dunbar....have you sued the water company yet for destroying the copper in your area? I remember a year or so ago you broke the news wide open.......They are adding somthing to the water and making the copper pinhole in your area. Remember that? I do.

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