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Slab Leak Warm Floor

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  • #16
    Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

    Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
    Or homes that have fittings under the slab. I've had to pull flooring up on the second floor and cut the plywood to run new pipe and more walls to cut. I've done homes that have no attic and on a slab by running pipe around the exterior and coming back into the home at the plumbing locations. 99% of the time around here there is a way.
    When I was a kid back in the 80's I figured out "A way" to get the waste and vents tucked up into the floor joists in a large crawlspace that a contractor wanted to convert to living space.This will always stick in my mind because it was one of the more popular plumbers in the area that said the cieling had to be dropped.This ability comes from experience designing and installing
    systems in custom homes where plumbing is never taken into consideration.If you get a drop cieling to run through it's only cause the HVAC asked for it(slight exaggeration).
    You have fittings under the slab.They are illegal for a reason they are prone to failure.The house needs a repipe.
    Our homes in this vicinity have rolled copper with no joints allowed under slab.The copper lasts for 50 years as far as I've seen,as long as it is installed properly.
    To re-route in some of these cases is a foolish way to waste money.

    Alot of these homes have been installed with a technique of stapping the manifolds to a rebar stake to hold them in place through the pour.I used to get reprimanded by more than one company owner cause I wouldn't stake my copper.The rebar is tearing up the copper.Otherwise as far as I can tell a house built in the early 80's still has more than half it's life left.
    IMO


    Adam

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    • #17
      Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

      Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
      When I was a kid back in the 80's I figured out "A way" to get the waste and vents tucked up into the floor joists in a large crawlspace that a contractor wanted to convert to living space.This will always stick in my mind because it was one of the more popular plumbers in the area that said the cieling had to be dropped.This ability comes from experience designing and installing
      systems in custom homes where plumbing is never taken into consideration.If you get a drop cieling to run through it's only cause the HVAC asked for it(slight exaggeration).
      You have fittings under the slab.They are illegal for a reason they are prone to failure.The house needs a repipe.
      Our homes in this vicinity have rolled copper with no joints allowed under slab.The copper lasts for 50 years as far as I've seen,as long as it is installed properly.
      To re-route in some of these cases is a foolish way to waste money.

      Alot of these homes have been installed with a technique of stapping the manifolds to a rebar stake to hold them in place through the pour.I used to get reprimanded by more than one company owner cause I wouldn't stake my copper.The rebar is tearing up the copper.Otherwise as far as I can tell a house built in the early 80's still has more than half it's life left.
      IMO


      Adam
      The homes that I have found with fittings under the slab were built during a specific period of time(60 yrs old) and in specific neighborhoods.

      I have found joints leaking once or twice but usually it was the pipe. They only had about 4 different floor plans for those homes and the plumbing was done the same way in those 4 plans. 9 times out of 10 it was the main hot feed to the bath and a hot spot would show up in the middle of the run....finished floors were not an issue as most had carpet and the slab was soft.....break it easy with a sledge hammer.

      I use to do 2 or 3 leaks a week and they took an average of 3.5 hours to do with travel time. I would repipe if they had the money and it would take a day to 1.5 days and we did 3 or 4 a month. I've repiped them with cpvc,copper,polybutylene and pex.

      The cause of the leaks ranged from lightning,dings in the pipe wall,rocks against the pipe,electrolysis and just plain ole worn out from use. The quality of copper pipe was hit or miss during periods of history.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

        Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
        The homes that I have found with fittings under the slab were built during a specific period of time(60 yrs old) and in specific neighborhoods.

        I have found joints leaking once or twice but usually it was the pipe. They only had about 4 different floor plans for those homes and the plumbing was done the same way in those 4 plans. 9 times out of 10 it was the main hot feed to the bath and a hot spot would show up in the middle of the run....finished floors were not an issue as most had carpet and the slab was soft.....break it easy with a sledge hammer.

        I use to do 2 or 3 leaks a week and they took an average of 3.5 hours to do with travel time. I would repipe if they had the money and it would take a day to 1.5 days and we did 3 or 4 a month. I've repiped them with cpvc,copper,polybutylene and pex.

        The cause of the leaks ranged from lightning,dings in the pipe wall,rocks against the pipe,electrolysis and just plain ole worn out from use. The quality of copper pipe was hit or miss during periods of history.
        We have the same problem the next town over.100's of homes built in the early 60's with 50/50 soldered fittings under the slab.I am surprised these houses aren't being repiped as tough they were an old galvanized system.Sure there is an occassional line failure but not the typical whole tract repipe.In our town we have the same type of tract(100's) of homes piped in gal.You would be hard pressed to find one without a full repipe.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
          We have the same problem the next town over.100's of homes built in the early 60's with 50/50 soldered fittings under the slab.I am surprised these houses aren't being repiped as tough they were an old galvanized system.Sure there is an occassional line failure but not the typical whole tract repipe.In our town we have the same type of tract(100's) of homes piped in gal.You would be hard pressed to find one without a full repipe.
          In those same homes they had galvanized natural gas pipe under the slab...usually only one line and that was the main from the meter. No explosions because of it here but that was only luck....several times i have told people to GET OUT OF THAT HOUSE NOW and hung up and called the gas co. Typically we would convert to a 2lb system and run a 3/8 id copper line and connect the heater,stove and water heater all within 4 ft of each other. 1200 sq ft homes. Square box with a roof.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

            I had a call today from a customer that I installed a Rinnai tankless unit and the complaint was singing pipes. She could stand in her bathroom,any bathroom and here the pipes singing. 1960's construction with copper under the slab. I arrive and immediately walk to the tankless thats running strong. Knock on the door and ask if she is running hot water right now. She says "No Sur" I walk in and head to the bathrooms and feel the floor...both cold to the touch. Livingroom has wood floor and large entertainment room had tile that joined the kitchen. I took my shoes off and walked the path that I would have installed the water pipe had I piped the home when it was new. 25' from the water heater I found the hot spot. Exactly 7 minutes after I arrived on site. 15 minutes later I had a sketch of how I will install the new pipe and a ballpark estimate. She accepted and I will start the job in the morning.

            Thank you copper pipe. Now pex gets its turn

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

              Except for socks and listening devices, whom uses a temperature laser gun and does it work? My accuracy with listening devices needs improvement for slab on grade.

              Thanks.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

                Originally posted by Mark7 View Post
                Except for socks and listening devices, whom uses a temperature laser gun and does it work? My accuracy with listening devices needs improvement for slab on grade.

                Thanks.
                Sure I've used a temp laser....but 95% of the time I find it with my hand or feet by walking the most logical way the pipe would run. Sure they work.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

                  Originally posted by Mark7 View Post
                  Except for socks and listening devices, whom uses a temperature laser gun and does it work? My accuracy with listening devices needs improvement for slab on grade.

                  Thanks.
                  Use thermal mapping all the time, it works well...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

                    For thermal mapping, what equipment do you use, ie a FLIR camera?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

                      Originally posted by Mark7 View Post
                      Except for socks and listening devices, whom uses a temperature laser gun and does it work? My accuracy with listening devices needs improvement for slab on grade.

                      Thanks.
                      A listening device is still necessary.A guy can get lucky or jackhammer excessively without.Sure you can get close but the potential for a miss goes way up.

                      You have to be very patient and practiced.Being in a rush is going to eventually screw it up.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

                        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                        A listening device is still necessary.A guy can get lucky or jackhammer excessively without.Sure you can get close but the potential for a miss goes way up.

                        You have to be very patient and practiced.Being in a rush is going to eventually screw it up.
                        This same post could be used to teach a guy how to pick up a women. Read it thinking in that context....

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Slab Leak Warm Floor

                          Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                          This same post could be used to teach a guy how to pick up a women. Read it thinking in that context....
                          Wow,Tip of the hat to you on this one Mister



                          Don't get swollen now

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