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  • #16
    Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

    Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
    how come there is no vent to the outside on the regulator
    Because it has a vent limiting device on the regulator.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

      there is a relationship between pressure and volume. with volume being the key here.
      sigpic

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      • #18
        !

        [QUOTE=NHMaster3015;325600]there is a relationship between pressure and volume. with volume being the key here.[/QUOTE

        Your Good! Correct and without the volume you wouldn't have the pressure while the burner is firing.

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        • #19
          Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

          Thread bump lets talk more about gas pressure.

          Short term memeory loss on the forum?

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          • #20
            Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

            Let's not talk about gas pressure because it's pretty obvious to anyone that holds a gas license that you don't have a clue what you are talking about here. If this was your idea of "winning" the point you are sadly mistaken. Get out your Gas Code and READ it.
            sigpic

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            • #21
              Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              Let's not talk about gas pressure because it's pretty obvious to anyone that holds a gas license that you don't have a clue what you are talking about here. If this was your idea of "winning" the point you are sadly mistaken. Get out your Gas Code and READ it.
              Here Sir.....read page 6 of this PDF about checking gas pressure while the burner is firing to make sure the water heater is getting enough gas.

              You use a manometer and fire the burner off......while the burner is firing the pressure reading will drop.....if it doesn't drop out of spec then the appliance is getting enough gas.

              Do you understand now?

              http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/...als/46647A.pdf


              add> I think we are making progress..now you at least admit we are having the conversation. I understand how and why it could slip a guys mind.....it can be tough keeping up with everybody but yourself.
              Last edited by TheMaster; 01-20-2011, 03:13 PM.

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              • #22
                Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

                LINE PRESSURE
                "The combination thermostat/gas valve is designed for a maximum line pressure of 14.0" w.c. and a minimum line
                pressure of 1.0"w.c. over the water heater rated manifold pressure. Line pressure must be checked with burner on and burner off to assure proper readings."


                The above was taken from the PDF in the link I posted.....from page 6 in the manual.


                You see...the manometer is used while the burner is firing so you can make sure the pressure does not drop below the required 4.0" w.c. + or - .03" w.c.

                Without the required 4.0"w.c. +or-.03"w.c. with the burner firing...the appliance is starved for gas.

                I think that makes alot of sense to most people....I dont know how else to explain it.


                Here I will post the info from the website


                MANIFOLD PRESSURE TESTING
                (this procedure assumes a maximum line pressure of 14.0" w.c.)

                Step 1. Set combination thermostat/gas valve to “OFF” position.
                Step 2. Remove pressure tap plug (3/16" Allen wrench) and install
                pressure tap (7/16" wrench)
                Step 3. Connect manometer to pressure tap.
                Step 4 Follow lighting instructions and proceed to light
                main burner and observe manometer reading.
                Step 5 Proper operating range for natural gas is 4.0 ±0.3" W.C.
                Proper operating range for L.P. gas is 10.0 ±0.5" W.C.
                Step 6 If pressure is OK, set combination thermostat/gas valve to “OFF”
                remove manometer and pressure tap and replace pressure tap plug. Check for gas leaks before placing water
                heater back in operation. If pressure is out of the specification noted in step 5, proceed to step 7 or 8 for proper
                service procedure.
                Step 7 For White Rodgers control, the manifold pressure is not adjustable. If manifold pressure is outside the range
                in step 5, the control must be replaced.
                Step 8 For Robertshaw control, the manifold pressure is adjustable, proceed to step 9 for adjustment procedure
                Step 9 While burner is in operation, remove regulator access cap to expose the regulator adjusting screw. With small
                screw driver, rotate adjusting screw clockwise to increase pressure and counter clockwise to decrease pressure.
                Step 10 Replace regulator access cap, set combination thermostat/gas valve to “OFF”. Remove manometer and
                pressure tap and replace pressure tap plug. Check for gas leaks before placing water heater back in operation.
                Last edited by TheMaster; 01-20-2011, 03:01 PM. Reason: To prove everything

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                • #23
                  Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

                  Here are the flow capacities of copper tube.

                  Oh well I cant get the table to post properly...it looks fine until I post it. You'll hafta click the link to copper.org.

                  Look at this table in the link. get back wid me.
                  http://www.copper.org/applications/f...s/table04.html
                  Last edited by TheMaster; 01-20-2011, 03:38 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

                    Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                    Because it has a vent limiting device on the regulator.
                    is it the type with a little ball in it ,i cant make it out
                    Charlie

                    My seek the peek fundraiser page
                    http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                    http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                    new work pictures 12/09
                    http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

                      Originally posted by HVAC HAWK View Post
                      is it the type with a little ball in it ,i cant make it out
                      Yes I believe so...I've never had to repalce a regulator because of a malfunctioning vent inside a home.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

                        Originally posted by themaster View Post
                        here sir.....read page 6 of this pdf about checking gas pressure while the burner is firing to make sure the water heater is getting enough gas.

                        You use a manometer and fire the burner off......while the burner is firing the pressure reading will drop.....if it doesn't drop out of spec then the appliance is getting enough gas.

                        Do you understand now?

                        http://www.bradfordwhite.com/images/...als/46647a.pdf


                        add> i think we are making progress..now you at least admit we are having the conversation. I understand how and why it could slip a guys mind.....it can be tough keeping up with everybody but yourself.
                        How long have you two been married?
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

                          That's a good thing because it the vent does malfunction you probably won't have to replace the regulator, there won't be a house left.

                          I am truly amazed that the city/state allows 2lb regulators to be installed in a residence. NFPA 58 prohibits it and there is not a mechanical inspector in a thousand mile radius that would allow that. More on point though is why run 2lbs inside the building? You can drop down to operating pressure outside the building with a 2nd stage regulator ( which is a better choice because it has a larger diaphragm and therefore is less susceptible to lock up) Even in commercial applications we are required to hard pipe the vent to the exterior of the building and all interior gas lines that carry high pressure must be labeled. Furthermore all high pressure gas lines within the building must be hard piped and properly supported and protected from damage. But if your city allows it than it must be good yes?
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            That's a good thing because it the vent does malfunction you probably won't have to replace the regulator, there won't be a house left.

                            I am truly amazed that the city/state allows 2lb regulators to be installed in a residence. NFPA 58 prohibits it and there is not a mechanical inspector in a thousand mile radius that would allow that. More on point though is why run 2lbs inside the building? You can drop down to operating pressure outside the building with a 2nd stage regulator ( which is a better choice because it has a larger diaphragm and therefore is less susceptible to lock up) Even in commercial applications we are required to hard pipe the vent to the exterior of the building and all interior gas lines that carry high pressure must be labeled. Furthermore all high pressure gas lines within the building must be hard piped and properly supported and protected from damage. But if your city allows it than it must be good yes?
                            Its not high pressure its medium. 2lb is medium pressure. Sure its fine and there have no problems in 30 years of service.

                            And its allowed and actually encouraged Code or no code its all over the city

                            By the way I have some more numbers that will impress you.

                            Dormont brand stainless gas connectors.
                            1/4" I.D. will run 48,000 btu's per hour with a 12" straight connector.
                            3/8" I.D. will run 102,000 btu's per hour with a 12" staright connector.
                            1/2" I.D. will run 180,000 btu's per hour with a 12" straight connector.
                            They meet the follow code requirments.
                            National fuel gas code
                            Natural gas and proane installation code
                            Housing and urban development
                            UPC 1212.1 table 12-14
                            International Fuel gas code sect. 411
                            Commonwealth of Massachusetts)up to 36" lenght"
                            City of New York MEA376-92-M


                            So do you still think that lil piece of 3/8" o.d tube couldn't possibly run that water heater?
                            Last edited by TheMaster; 01-20-2011, 10:31 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

                              You are serious aren't you?
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Kinked Soft Copper T&P Relief Line

                                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                                You are serious aren't you?
                                Sure I'm serious. So what say you? I listed the info for you from two sources copper.org and Dormont co....so will the water heater operate properly or not? How long are ya gonna ride the fence on this? Its not like its going away

                                The water heater is operating perfectly and I can prove that it will by BTU listings of appliance connectors and with a video camera and a manometer.

                                So is it going to take a video showing the pressure drop and the burner firing? If that will not satisfy you let me know so I wont waste the time.

                                Review this thread and get back wit me

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