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  • #31
    Re: new fill valve

    I have pulled Fluidmasters where the float has become waterlogged and would not rise to the cutoff position.

    Seems like I used 1 Brasscraft that a person gave me. Worked fine but I obviously don't have a tract record for a good opinion with only having installed 1.

    It's the same basic design though.

    I've ran into the fill valve the OP is talking about and wasn't really impressed. While the design is again similar, some materials and details seemed inferior. And it had failed.

    Just as SlimTim stated, I've replaced TONS of Fluidmasters that are less than 5 years old.

    Does that make them the best?

    Everything from hairline fractures on the shank, float waterlogged, sediment in the valve assembly, and the seal just wouldn't seal anymore. Even a NEW seal in the assembly would not seal either.

    For me, the best Fluidmaster is nothing more than a "good enough" product for the $ to provide descent service for certain amount of time. There's no magic to them. They could be GREATLY improved for just a few dollars more to last for years longer. Other old valves did.

    But that would eliminate Fluidmasters turnover. These people aren't dumb.

    And it would eliminate alot of my calls too.


    J.C.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: new fill valve

      The only way for the float to be submerged is for the valve not to turn off. The float CANNOT be waterlogged and CAUSE the failure.

      Now all that disputes that can prove it...and I will STFU.

      I can go into my bath right now and hold the float down on a 400a until it is submerged totally....and then release the float and it will turn off. Now who doesn't understand that?

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: new fill valve

        I have been to jobs where the float is underwater, the arm is down, and the water is at the edge of the overflow tube. The homeowner had turned the water off. Turn the water on and it wouldn't stop running.

        Been to one or two where the barrel float was broken at a seam.

        Again, sitting underwater.

        We have no lead water services anywhere here. But when others with experience tell me they exist, I believe them.


        J.C.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: new fill valve

          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
          I have been to jobs where the float is underwater, the arm is down, and the water is at the edge of the overflow tube. The homeowner had turned the water off. Turn the water on and it wouldn't stop running.

          Been to one or two where the barrel float was broken at a seam.

          Again, sitting underwater.

          We have no lead water services anywhere here. But when others with experience tell me they exist, I believe them.



          J.C.
          Ok now we are getting to the points.

          If the arm is down and the float is down then the float is stuck on the shaft.

          If the float has seperated then it has been tampered with or was defective out of the box.

          The float having water in it has nothing to do with the failure.

          The bottom portion of the float snaps into the top and it snaps in solid. I've never seen a float that came apart on it own and most likely it has been tampered with or the installer didn't make sure it was secure when he installed it.
          Last edited by TheMaster; 01-15-2011, 08:07 PM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: new fill valve

            I'm for the Fluidmasters
            I've had one failure out of the box with them in all the years I've been plumbing. The most common reason I replace 400 a's is the float sticking on the shaft. "If the arm is down and the float is down then the float is stuck on the shaft." TheMaster.
            Mike

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: new fill valve

              Just for kicks I just went and seperated the float on my 400a ballcock and it still works perfectly. Anyone with experience want to explain how the float can become water loegged now and cause the 400a to malfunction?

              I will make a video if thats what it takes to prove it or anyone who has a 400a in their toilet can easily test it if you have doubt.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: new fill valve

                same here, Never had a fluidmaster failure unless it was just an old one that had debris come through the diaghram
                No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: new fill valve

                  The float is buoyant , when the float fills with water it loses its buoyancy and will not float up and turn the valve off. How hard is that to understand?
                  Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                  A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                  Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                  Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: new fill valve

                    Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                    Just for kicks I just went and seperated the float on my 400a ballcock and it still works perfectly. Anyone with experience want to explain how the float can become water loegged now and cause the 400a to malfunction?

                    I will make a video if thats what it takes to prove it or anyone who has a 400a in their toilet can easily test it if you have doubt.
                    No, I don't need a video. I believe you and don't need to prove you incorrect. That's the difference.


                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: new fill valve

                      Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                      The float is buoyant , when the float fills with water it loses its buoyancy and will not float up and turn the valve off. How hard is that to understand?
                      So how come when I hold the float under water for a minute and then let the float go....it rises and turns the 400a off.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: new fill valve

                        Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                        So how come when I hold the float under water for a minute and then let the float go....it rises and turns the 400a off.
                        Well because you do not have a defective one or one that has failed yet.
                        Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                        A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                        Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                        Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: new fill valve

                          Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                          Well because you do not have a defective one or one that has failed yet.
                          How would a defect in the float cup cause it to water logg? I have a 400a right now with the float cup seperated and it works fine.

                          I can hold the float cup under water seperated and let it go and the 400a turns off.

                          I can assemble the float cup and hold it under water and let it go and the 400a turns off.

                          So to conclude this discussion the float cup filling with water has nothing to do with the 400a not turning off. Now I hope that clears this up and if it doesn't the person needs to install one and test it like i just did and then post a response.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: new fill valve

                            Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                            How would a defect in the float cup cause it to water logg? I have a 400a right now with the float cup seperated and it works fine.

                            I can hold the float cup under water seperated and let it go and the 400a turns off.

                            I can assemble the float cup and hold it under water and let it go and the 400a turns off.

                            So to conclude this discussion the float cup filling with water has nothing to do with the 400a not turning off. Now I hope that clears this up and if it doesn't the person needs to install one and test it like i just did and then post a response.
                            I don't understand all of this. You aren't spouting any new wisdom about this simple valve any more than myself or anyone else is.

                            A combination of things occurs to absolutely, positively make it become waterlogged.

                            1) For whatever reason the float arm became stuck. Maybe just once.

                            2) Water rises above the seam a fills the cup.

                            3) Now, even if the arm becomes free and would never stick again, the water in the cup causes it to not function properly.

                            WestCoast Plumbing was merely pointing out that the Brasscraft model apparently does not have this weakness in it's design.




                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: new fill valve

                              Well I still think they are junk, I will still keep installing brass ballcocks.
                              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                              Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                              Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: new fill valve

                                Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                                Well I still think they are junk, I will still keep installing brass ballcocks.
                                Well thats all cool and you have the right to your opinion but not your own facts and the facts are that a fluidmaster doesnt malfunction from a water logged float.

                                Comment

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