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  • #46
    Re: new fill valve

    Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
    Well thats all cool and you have the right to your opinion but not your own facts and the facts are that a fluidmaster doesnt malfunction from a water logged float.
    I guess myself and the other plumbers that have posted in this thread are liars according to you.
    Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
    A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
    Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
    Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: new fill valve

      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
      I don't understand all of this. You aren't spouting any new wisdom about this simple valve any more than myself or anyone else is.

      A combination of things occurs to absolutely, positively make it become waterlogged.

      1) For whatever reason the float arm became stuck. Maybe just once.

      2) Water rises above the seam a fills the cup.

      3) Now, even if the arm becomes free and would never stick again, the water in the cup causes it to not function properly.

      WestCoast Plumbing was merely pointing out that the Brasscraft model apparently does not have this weakness in it's design.




      J.C.
      Your simply posting incorrect information. I can submerge the float and hold it there and fill it full of water. When i release the float the 400a turns off.

      I can seperate the float and it still turns off.

      You seem to want to argue with facts.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: new fill valve

        P.S. my Pops has a 30 year old Mansfield in his house that I KNOW has never had the valve changed and it functions just as it should.


        J.C.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: new fill valve

          Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
          I guess myself and the other plumbers that have posted in this thread are liars according to you.
          No your just wrong. I dont think you know better.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: new fill valve

            Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
            No your just wrong. I dont think you know better.
            I have pulled out many fluidmaster ballcocks that has had water logged floats which has caused the valve to run on. When I manually lifted the float arm it would turn off when I let it go it would turn back on.

            Just because you never ran into this does not mean it does not happen.
            Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
            A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
            Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
            Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: new fill valve

              Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
              Your simply posting incorrect information. I can submerge the float and hold it there and fill it full of water. When i release the flaot the 400a turns off.

              I can seperate the float and it still turns off.

              You seem to want to argue with facts.
              Incorrect. I do not want to argue with facts at all. You give the appearance (at least to me) that if you have not seen or experienced it then it cannot be true.

              I know about your many years of experience and all of the plumbers you've posted about from your family.

              I learn from your posts & experience as well. That doesn't mean you've seen everything and always have something to teach me.

              I believe your experiment. I can probably duplicate it myself and sit there scratching my head.

              You can choose to accept others have seen something or not. And you can rely on only your own experiences if you'd like. No problem with me.

              All I will say is that I have seen the cup half full, the arm free, and it causing it to be out of the adjustment range to run non-stop into the overfill tube.

              You may never see it. You may never duplicate it. You may not believe myself or others.

              Does that matter?

              I have no reason to make it up. There is no prize for it.


              J.C.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: new fill valve

                Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                I have pulled out many fluidmaster ballcocks that has had water logged floats which has caused the valve to run on. When I manually lifted the float arm it would turn off when I let it go it would turn back on.

                Just because you never ran into this does not mean it does not happen.
                Then how come I can go into my bathroom right now and fill the cup full of water and let it go and it turns off? And explain why after of installing them for 25 years I have never found one? Because it doesn't happen...its somthing else causing the malfunction.

                The reason you can turn it off with your finger is you putting more pressure than the float does.....it has noting to do with water in the float.

                Doesn't it make sense to you that if I can submerge the float and fill it full of water and then let it go. and it turns off....that the fluidmaster ballcock doesn't get a water logged float problem??????

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: new fill valve

                  I think i hear my toilet running !!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: new fill valve

                    Originally posted by DELCASE View Post
                    I think i hear my toilet running !!
                    The Fluidmaster float is waterlogged.

                    J.C.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: new fill valve

                      Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                      Incorrect. I do not want to argue with facts at all. You give the appearance (at least to me) that if you have not seen or experienced it then it cannot be true.

                      I know about your many years of experience and all of the plumbers you've posted about from your family.

                      I learn from your posts & experience as well. That doesn't mean you've seen everything and always have something to teach me.

                      I believe your experiment. I can probably duplicate it myself and sit there scratching my head.

                      You can choose to accept others have seen something or not. And you can rely on only your own experiences if you'd like. No problem with me.

                      All I will say is that I have seen the cup half full, the arm free, and it causing it to be out of the adjustment range to run non-stop into the overfill tube.

                      You may never see it. You may never duplicate it. You may not believe myself or others.

                      Does that matter?

                      I have no reason to make it up. There is no prize for it.


                      J.C.
                      The cup is more than 1/2 full when the valve is operating. Look at the design,it has a hole in the bottom and when the valve is in the off position the water level is almost to the top of the float......the only way for water to rise above the top of the cup is for the valve to fail to turn off. It has nothing to do with water in the float.

                      So in other words the valve is made to have water in the float. Again go get one off the shelf and look at it.

                      ADD> If you read the above quoted post and pay attention to the sentence that starts with "ALL I will Say" that will explain what I'm talking about. You say you have found the "cup" half full. I simply pointed out that on a properly wroking fluidmaster the cup is more that half full when the 400a is in the off position.

                      Totally destroying the idea that a water logged float cup causes the fluidmaster 400a to malfunction.
                      Last edited by TheMaster; 01-15-2011, 10:45 PM. Reason: explain what I'm talking about

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: new fill valve

                        Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                        The cup is more than 1/2 full when the valve is operating. Look at the design,it has a hole in the bottom and when the valve is in the off position the water level is almost to the top of the float......the only way for water to rise above the top of the cup is for the valve to fail to turn off. It has nothing to do with water in the float.

                        So in other words the valve is made to have water in the float. Again go get one off the shelf and look at it.
                        I know what you're talking about. There's always a little bit of water in there. Seems like I recall 2 holes in the bottom for some reason.

                        Was the float always this way? I honestly didn't pay that close attention over the years.

                        I have been to Fluidmasters where the float was much more waterlogged than the height of those holes. (Not looking at one right now. Just from memory).

                        What caused it? I don't know. Probably a combination of things like I described earlier. Hard to imagine a float drain becoming plugged. Just reporting what I've seen.

                        That extra water weight caused malfunction.

                        Again. WestCoast Plumbing was stating that Brasscrafts' unit seems to have a sealed float.

                        Could be better.


                        J.C.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: new fill valve

                          Originally posted by JCsPlumbing View Post
                          I know what you're talking about. There's always a little bit of water in there. Seems like I recall 2 holes in the bottom for some reason.

                          Was the float always this way? I honestly didn't pay that close attention over the years.

                          I have been to Fluidmasters where the float was much more waterlogged than the height of those holes. (Not looking at one right now. Just from memory).

                          What caused it? I don't know. Probably a combination of things like I described earlier. Hard to imagine a float drain becoming plugged. Just reporting what I've seen.

                          That extra water weight caused malfunction.

                          Again. WestCoast Plumbing was stating that Brasscrafts' unit seems to have a sealed float.

                          Could be better.


                          J.C.
                          Ok I explained what I was refering to in the above post with an edit.

                          Now did you take the fluidmaster apart and empty the water out and then reinstall...and then the valve worked? I think not. Fluidmasters do not get a water logged float and malfunction. Posting that it does is just wrong information.

                          I can prove it with a test and so can anyone else by holding the float down until it fills with water and then releasing it. I think some of you have just assumed thats what cause it.

                          I think this deserves an email to fluidmaster to see if their float cup can become waterlogged and cause a malfunction with a 400a. I will post the response from Fluidmaster when they respond. But I have a feeling that will not be good enough for some

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: new fill valve

                            Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                            Ok I explained what I was refering to in the above post with an edit.

                            Now did you take the fluidmaster apart and empty the water out and then reinstall...and then the valve worked? I think not. Fluidmasters do not get a water logged float and malfunction. Posting that it does is just wrong information.

                            I can prove it with a test and so can anyone else by holding the float down until it fills with water and then releasing it. I think some of you have just assumed thats what cause it.

                            I think this deserves an email to fluidmaster to see if their float cup can become waterlogged and cause a malfunction with a 400a. I will post the response from Fluidmaster when they respond. But I have a feeling that will not be good enough for some
                            I fully expect them to say it is impossible. And that will be good enough for some.


                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: new fill valve

                              I nominate JC for the diplomat of this thread award
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: new fill valve

                                there's a reason why american standard and kohler use fluidmasters as their oem ballcock. because they work, they're inexpensive and trouble free.

                                i've got the better half of 50 factory 1b1x brass shank ballcocks to fit the kohler 1pc. toilets with the secondary floats. the original ones with a plastic cap were junk and a lawsuit waiting to happen. the newer design is a tad better than junk, but if you expect the toilet to flush and fill properly, you need to install that ballcock.

                                nowadays, 95% of my toilets get a form of a fluidmaster. i have well over 100 fluidmasters in stock from the regular 400a, pro 45, pro 45b, pro45hr to even the fluidmaster/ kohler side inlet. even the niagra toilet uses a fluidmaster.

                                now if you want a guaranteed callback, install a factory toto ballcock.

                                i have less than a 1% callback with fluidmasters and as far as i'm concerned they're the best non-ballcock design out there.

                                rick.
                                phoebe it is

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