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  • #16
    Re: Pvc freeze damage

    Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
    not required and not enforced aren't the same thing. The backflow device installed at the meter is typically an untestable dual spring check, though i'm not sure what gets installed in your area. NHMaster is correct that the local amendments can't trump the ICC, the can't be made less stringent.

    but again, enforcement is going to dictate how a lot of things are done.
    Also in this area who you know will also dictate what gets enforced and what don't....just a crappy fact of life i guess....
    Poor Planning On Your Part Does Not Constitute An Emergency On My Part!!
    You can fire me...but you can't tell me what to do!

    Derek

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    • #17
      Re: Pvc freeze damage

      Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
      Does a boiler drain on a water heater require a backflow preventer? Or does a washing machine box connections? I have seen pressure washer guys connect to both of those.
      The boiler drain on a water heater does not require one since it is only installed for draining purpose. Washing machine bibs can not have them since a vacuum breaker is not to have the water shut off beyond the device. So a duel check would be required there.
      Last edited by SewerRatz; 01-20-2011, 10:36 PM. Reason: rephrased.
      Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
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      • #18
        Re: Pvc freeze damage

        Lets look at this logically. Start with "does a boiler drain on a water heater require a backflow preventer?" A water heater drain is not considered to be a normal supply connection and though it is possible to do exactly what you have said, the code does not preclude all forms of stupidity, same goes for a washer connection because it is assumed that anyone connecting to it would have to first disconnect the hoses. As for considering a BFP at the meter to be sufficient protection, the BFP will indeed protect the supply but it will not protect the residence. I really really hate to do this again but you are going to need to point to where you are getting these rules from. Remember though that I have a copy of both your state code ( 03 IPC ) and your cities amendments and I've read them both. You make it sound like you live in a 3rd world country down there.
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        • #19
          Re: Pvc freeze damage

          Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
          The boiler drain on a water heater does not require one since it is only installed for draining purpose. Washing machine bibs can not have them since a vacuum breaker is not to have the water shut off beyond the device. So a duel check is required there.
          yes it may be installed for draining purpose but it has hose threads and I know a carpet guy that attachs to it all the time to fill his machine. So people use it..especially in vaccant apartments.

          Now I said backflow preventer...not vaccum breaker. So install whatever backflow device on the washing machine connections because my carpet cleaner friend uses them all the time and so do guys with pressure washers.

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          • #20
            Re: Pvc freeze damage

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            Lets look at this logically. Start with "does a boiler drain on a water heater require a backflow preventer?" A water heater drain is not considered to be a normal supply connection and though it is possible to do exactly what you have said, the code does not preclude all forms of stupidity, same goes for a washer connection because it is assumed that anyone connecting to it would have to first disconnect the hoses. As for considering a BFP at the meter to be sufficient protection, the BFP will indeed protect the supply but it will not protect the residence. I really really hate to do this again but you are going to need to point to where you are getting these rules from. Remember though that I have a copy of both your state code ( 03 IPC ) and your cities amendments and I've read them both. You make it sound like you live in a 3rd world country down there.
            You dont have anything because I never used my code to post on that other thread. I used other codes. I knew you would google it and play stalker. I give limited info because of people just like you

            Apartments are vaccant some times and when its vaccant there are no washer and dryers in them....same with alot of houses. people fill their carpet cleanign machines with them and connect pressure washers to them to clean 3 and 4 floor patios.

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            • #21
              Re: Pvc freeze damage

              Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
              You dont have anything because I never used my code to post on that other thread. I used other codes. I knew you would google it and play stalker. I give limited info because of people just like you

              Apartments are vaccant some times and when its vaccant there are no washer and dryers in them....same with alot of houses. people fill their carpet cleanign machines with them and connect pressure washers to them to clean 3 and 4 floor patios.
              I know this to be true. It does not however excuse the lack of vacuum breaker protection where you know it to be a higher percentage of danger.

              They screw on pretty easy.


              J.C.

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              • #22
                Re: Pvc freeze damage

                look at it this way, they want the hose on the deck, lets say they use it in a situation like ratz posted, and got sick or died, all it would have taken is that $5 part, that you would have charged the customer for "not costing you anything" who do you think the family is going to sue? the local code enforcement for not checking your work, or the installer who didn't follow ABPA guidelines?
                No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

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                • #23
                  Re: Pvc freeze damage

                  Originally posted by MoJourneyman View Post
                  look at it this way, they want the hose on the deck, lets say they use it in a situation like ratz posted, and got sick or died, all it would have taken is that $5 part, that you would have charged the customer for "not costing you anything" who do you think the family is going to sue? the local code enforcement for not checking your work, or the installer who didn't follow ABPA guidelines?

                  Both
                  sigpic

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                  • #24
                    Re: Pvc freeze damage

                    ..... Dammit, stop being right.

                    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                    Both
                    No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Pvc freeze damage

                      Originally posted by TheMaster View Post
                      You dont have anything because I never used my code to post on that other thread. I used other codes. I knew you would google it and play stalker. I give limited info because of people just like you

                      Apartments are vaccant some times and when its vaccant there are no washer and dryers in them....same with alot of houses. people fill their carpet cleanign machines with them and connect pressure washers to them to clean 3 and 4 floor patios.
                      So by that logic what you posted on that other thread is pure BS. Anyhoo, I know exactly who you are where you are from and what code you are under and I will respect your desire to hide your identity because if I was you I wouldn't want anyone finding me either.

                      Codes do their best to protect against the more common foreseeable things that might happen. The reason we have code review boards is to take up issues like you posted above. The board will consider the potential hazards and liability involved and either make rule changes to address the problem or determine that the hazard is minimal and not worth changing. Either way, in the end, as trained professionals it is up to us to PROTECT THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THE PUBLIC regardless or what the code says.
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                      • #26
                        Re: Pvc freeze damage

                        I personally dont like the screw on vaccum breakers and I only use them for commercial hose faucets and homes with swimming pools as required.

                        But I understand those who feel the need to use them.

                        How bout that pvc freezing I love it. I'm not sure I will be ale to sleep tonight between the no vaccum breakers on my sillcocks and the gas regs all over the city I'm all nutted up You guys are good sports

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                        • #27
                          Re: Pvc freeze damage

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          So by that logic what you posted on that other thread is pure BS. Anyhoo, I know exactly who you are where you are from and what code you are under and I will respect your desire to hide your identity because if I was you I wouldn't want anyone finding me either.
                          I promised you I wouldn't provide you with proof and I meant it. I dont forget my conversations.(gas pressure)

                          If you knew who I was and what I was about you would know that everything I'm telling you is the truth. And you would also know that it would be a bad day if a guy did find me if they didn't handle it right.

                          I like how you throw out your online stalking abilities and then show grace by not releasing the information...then proceed with the "safety of the public" speech.

                          Now do you want to talk about PVC freezing? Or do you need to run more background checks first?

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                          • #28
                            Re: Pvc freeze damage

                            If nothing else you sure are good for a laugh.

                            What's to talk about? It freezes, it breaks.

                            Looking at your "repair" I think it's safe to say that if we were to take a poll amongst licensed plumbers here, damn few would even consider doing what you did. Never mind the lack of backflow protection, how many would have adapted to the old sillcock rather than remove it and connecting to the piping? I'm sure your response will be that the homeowner didn't want to pay the extra but that's not an excuse for hack plumbing. Worse yet, you have the nerve to post an abortion like that and not expect licensed plumbers to jump all over you, and you try to justify it on top of that. Same with your water heater. I would be embarrassed to let anyone see that regulator hanging there on 3/8 copper, legal or not. And again your excuse that it's cheaper to do it that way. You are right about one thing though. There is no way we could work together because I would have fire you before the first hour was up if those examples are the kind of work that you are proud of.


                            (quote TM) I promised you I wouldn't provide you with proof and I meant it. I dont forget my conversations.(gas pressure)

                            But you did say that you would provide them to Mark and you lied about that as well. Fact is, looking through your posts, you lie most of the time about things so believing anything you say is real difficult at this point. Not sure why you fee the need to play your games. You did it on other forums and got the boot. The definition of insanity is doing things the same way and expecting different results.

                            Again, that makes everything you posted in that thread complete crap. If you can't,/won't back up your statements then there is no point in discussing anything with you.
                            Last edited by NHMaster3015; 01-21-2011, 06:41 AM.
                            sigpic

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                            • #29
                              Re: Pvc freeze damage

                              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                              If nothing else you sure are good for a laugh.

                              What's to talk about? It freezes, it breaks.

                              Looking at your "repair" I think it's safe to say that if we were to take a poll amongst licensed plumbers here, damn few would even consider doing what you did. Never mind the lack of backflow protection, how many would have adapted to the old sillcock rather than remove it and connecting to the piping? I'm sure your response will be that the homeowner didn't want to pay the extra but that's not an excuse for hack plumbing. Worse yet, you have the nerve to post an abortion like that and not expect licensed plumbers to jump all over you, and you try to justify it on top of that. Same with your water heater. I would be embarrassed to let anyone see that regulator hanging there on 3/8 copper, legal or not. And again your excuse that it's cheaper to do it that way. You are right about one thing though. There is no way we could work together because I would have fire you before the first hour was up if those examples are the kind of work that you are proud of.


                              (quote TM) I promised you I wouldn't provide you with proof and I meant it. I dont forget my conversations.(gas pressure)

                              But you did say that you would provide them to Mark and you lied about that as well. Fact is, looking through your posts, you lie most of the time about things so believing anything you say is real difficult at this point. Not sure why you fee the need to play your games. You did it on other forums and got the boot. The definition of insanity is doing things the same way and expecting different results.

                              Again, that makes everything you posted in that thread complete crap. If you can't,/won't back up your statements then there is no point in discussing anything with you.
                              I could say alot back Nhmaster but it obvious to me your unhappy with yourself.

                              I think your obcessed with me and mine. I get alot of that and hafta pick my friends carefully. Success has enemies. Your proof of that

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                              • #30
                                Re: Pvc freeze damage

                                I am not at all unhappy with myself. I don't tolerate BS from anybody. If you can't back up the crap you post than don't post it. Think before you post.

                                Time to close this one up.
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